What is a soul?

[Skrill]

It is fact that the Physical Brain controls memories, personality. Thousands of other actions are all controlled by our nervous system, which is managed by our brains.

Therefore, what consensus is there for any evidence for a soul(s)? As the existence of the soul is very central to any belief or religion.

(my first post )

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 200 by hoghead1]

Perhaps you will refer to Jesus by his proper, given name in the future? And James, John, Jeremiah, etc.?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 184 by JLB32168]


[center]VERY Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
What is apart is A PART. [/center]

The OP asks for evidence of the soul as if its existence is questionable. The implication is that it doesnt exist and is the mere product of brain " a biological occurrence " and nothing more.

You are writing that "implication" the OP sure didn't.
Please stop pretending in public like this.. we can read the words in the OP.. we don't read what you INFER. Your opinions concerning the OP are your OWN.

Do you imagine that everyone has the same opinions that you do?

The Bible is authoritative on this board.

Has anyone said otherwise?
Please stop imagining things.

This question in effect rejects the authority of the Bible which says the soul exists; therefore, the question is not appropriate to this board.

Is that a fact or your opinion?
Do all people come to the same conclusion as you do?

I sure don't.
It's an honest question that deserves an honest answer.
Please stop the bellyaching and provide an honest answer.

If one is antagonized by the parameters defined by the board then the best solution to that is to refrain from coming to a board where certain presuppositions are givens and not open for discussion.

If someone breaks the rules of the forum, report them.
Stop the complaining and answer the question.

What I want to know, as an outsider to your faith is what IS a soul, and I think that's the question asked here.

Okay, well I said that it was the immaterial part of man that exists eternally and apart from the body. It will be separated at death and will be reunited at the resurrection of the dead.

That's the 3rd time you have repeated yourself.. I didn't understand it the two first times, either. That's why I asked you to clarify that in the first place.

In, out, apart, a part of, who knows anymore?
You seem to have HUGE language difficulties.

I have NO idea what "immaterial part of man" means.. and you haven't even tried to explain yourself. I asked you questions regarding that.. that you haven't answered.

I have NO idea how A PART of a man can be APART from a man.. that just makes NO sense. It's a PART or its NOT a part.

What a mess.

I don't know, for example what it is that you MEAN by "immaterial part of a man" that exists OUTSIDE and apart from the body.

I didnt say it existed outside the body. I said that it will be separated from the body at death.

How can something be APART from the body and at the same time a PART of the body?

You don't even seem to be able to understand YOUR own words !

"exists eternally and apart from the body It will be separated at death "

So, YOU say that it is APART from the body.. not IN IT.. but apart from it. OUTSIDE of it... and if it's going to BE SEPARATED .. it was PART of it at the same time. This is a mess. Its not a part and its a part..

Theist or no.. this makes NO sense.

So PLEASE try again, and this time, try to focus on what you write..
Or just give up.

You don't seem to be winning at this language thing.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 186 by dio9]

[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Poetry confused with reasoning.[/center]

in Zen world they say find out for yourself. the soul is to be found in the sound of one hand clapping. best wishes dio.

one hand clapping..

I JUST GOT ENLIGHTENED !!!!!

Meaningless though, of course there is no sound to one hand clapping.. and clapping takes TWO hands.. so you drag out an old cliche.. and it's perfectly MEANINGLESS.

That's the point of Koan.. right?
Defying reason?

What's next, Haiku?
Here is a hint:

Poetry isn't reasoned or honest debate.
Not even CLOSE.

So, I take your one line poem to be abdication.
You don't seem to HAVE a reasoned argument to present, so you hide behind some Zen, instead. Nice subterfuge. Too bad it didn't work.

I call it a ZEN HERRING.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 188 by Checkpoint]

I accept the Bible as the authority, and what it says about the "soul".

However, it nowhere says that souls are eternal or have existence apart from the body.

That's what people say. God doesn't.

Yes, there will one day be "the resurrection of the dead".

Those resurrected will have been dead, all parts of them, material and immaterial.

Are you explaining to us what "God says", or your opinion about what "God says"?

How is an outsider ( like me ) to tell which one of you has the right opinion about what "God says" in the authoritative Bible?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 201 by tigger2]

No, that is beside the point here. There names were Latinized, then Anglicized, something which is bound to happen. The name "Jehovah" is in a wholly different category. It was never intended to be an Anglicization. It was taken to be the actual name of God in the OT. That was due to the fact the KJV translators, for example, did not adequately understand Jewish tradition and how the vowel indicators worked. Hence, later, more accurate translations of the Bible dropped it.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's clear out the fog.

Eveything has a physical dimension.

Nephesh is in the blood, not some extensionless entity dumped into the body, where it is trapped.

Humans are psychophysical unities, not an immaterial soul trapped in a body.

All persons live on after death and that they exist in a physical or bodily state [...].

The shades in Sheol are not immaterial entities.

All things , in all their aspects, consist exclusively of minds or souls.

Therefore, in that I believe we exist beyond the grave, I believe we do so in tangible, physical form, not as disembodied minds.

Still "foggy"


Eveything has a physical dimension. This is not a bible teaching. Paul implied everything has a physical OR a spiritual dimension, he never suggests that the two are simultaneously both. That's not to say one cannot have an impact on the other, God (entirely spiritual) can move a chair (which is entirely physical); that doesn't mean the chair is somehow physical and spiritual.

God presents himself in anthropomorphic terms but this no more means He is literally physical than him saying he is a "rock" means his body is a literal rock. You are making a classic mistake of taking metaphor as literal.

What is the nature of God
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008370#h=6

CONCLUSION: Given the above it is evident that the bible presents two, completely different and not dual existences, one physical one spiritual, suggesting that everything is physical is entirely unbibilcal.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's clear out the fog.

Eveything has a physical dimension.

Nephesh is in the blood, not some extensionless entity dumped into the body, where it is trapped.

What do you think this means "nephesh is IN the blood"? Do you believe that if we look at blood close enough, and had the relevant equipment we could see

- red blood cells
- white bloods cells
- water
- salt
- protiens

and ...

- some nephesh?

Since you have said that everything has a physical dimension and that "nephesh is in the blood" that "nephesh" should be physically detectable by physical means. Are you really suggesting that "nephesh" is a component of blood that could presumably be extracted and studied in a laboratory.

Please follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 207 by JehovahsWitness]

Humans are psychophysical unities, not an immaterial soul trapped in a body.

All persons live on after death and that they exist in a physical or bodily state [...].

The fog continues ... Death destroys the physical body.

By definition death results in the total destruction of the physical body. God himself says that the body returns to (a non-living) state of "dust". If the body cannot survive death, and the soul is not a separate part of the body but is physically the bodily state of the individual then logically the soul cannot survive beyond death.


GENESIS 3:19
For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return." - NLT

EZEKIEL 18:20

International Standard Version
The soul who sins dies.

New Heart English Bible
The soul who sins, he shall die

GOD'S WORD Translation
The person who sins will die.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's clear out the fog.

All things , in all their aspects, consist exclusively of minds or souls.

Are you saying that soul is a synonym for "mind"? So are you saying all things, including dirt or glass or planets are souls? Can you explain this statement further? What is the scriptural basis for the above statement.

JW

[JLB32168]

What is apart is A PART.

Apart from also means as a separate unit or independently " meaning that the soul and the body arent of the same substance. That is why the body dies, but the soul doesnt. Not only are you being pedantic about negligible points, your pedantry isnt even right.

You are writing that "implication" the OP sure didn't.

Its a reasonable interpretation of the OP; albeit and opinion, and I addressed it. Youre free to disagree w/my opinion. You are not free to say my opinion is wrong. If the OP indeed questions the existence of the soul, and it is my opinion that it does, then the OP is improper in that the Bible " authoritative on this board " says a soul exists.

What is this thing that you call the "immaterial part of man"?

Well . . . Im not sure why one wouldnt know that immaterial means not consisting of matter. I presume that you know what a ghost is " allegedly a disembodied soul, that youve seen The Sixth Sense. You know, I see dead people?

I honestly dont know how one could not understand that. I might feign confusion if I wanted to be deliberately argumentative I suppose.