What is a soul?

Skrill · Post by **Skrill** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:54 pm

It is fact that the Physical Brain controls memories, personality. Thousands of other actions are all controlled by our nervous system, which is managed by our brains.

Therefore, what consensus is there for any evidence for a soul(s)? As the existence of the soul is very central to any belief or religion.

(my first post

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hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:15 pm

[Replying to post 277 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes, correct. On one hand, we never cease to exist, as the Bible emphasizes. On the other, moment to moment, we are perishing. The "self" I was a moment ago has perished, though preserved forever in God's memory.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:53 pm

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 277 by JehovahsWitness]

What I mean is simply what the Bible has to say on the subject: We live on beyond the grave. It's that simple. Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't give much detail on what life in the hereafter will be like for us. Paul sys we'll have a superdooper body. Other passages speak of some sort of terrible torment for others. Either way, the Bible makes it clear the grave is not the end for us.

At no point ever does the bible say We live on beyond the grave in it. You will find those six words nowhere in the bible, they are YOUR words, not Gods. Yes Paul speaks of a resurrection, and yes he speaks (for certain) as being given spirit bodies. And yes, the bible does speak of people coming out of the "the grave" sheol; back to life (after having been dead). Jesus himself demonstrated this by resurrecting Lazarus and others, but at no point does the bible ever imply that that being DEAD one continues to be alive as in the whole person continues his conscious existence while at the same time being "in" the grave or being dead.

But are you saying that people never die? Are you saying that the consciouse whole person continues his existence, even though he has died. I'm asking you what you mean by the words "we live beyond the grave" because this implies that although dead the person is still alive. Since those words are not in the bible, I get to ask you who believes them to accurately describe the situation.

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:59 pm

hoghead1 wrote: Yes, correct. On one hand, we never cease to exist, as the Bible emphasizes.

The bible never says this. You are mistaken, possibly projecting.

JW

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:33 am

[Replying to post 282 by JehovahsWitness]

Kook, I have already been through all this with you. According to the Bible, even the shades in Sheol are alive, though barely. Lk. 15 and also LK. 23 also make it very clear that when you die, yes, you do live on in Paradise or in Hades. Death, in the Bible, is snot the end, it is the beginning of a whole new existence.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:56 am

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 282 by JehovahsWitness]

Look, I have already been through all this with you. According to the Bible, even the shades in Sheol are alive, though barely. Lk. 15 and also LK. 23 also make it very clear that when you die, yes, you do live on in Paradise or in Hades. Death, in the Bible, is snot the end, it is the beginning of a whole new existence.

So you concede that the words "we never cease to exist" and "We live on beyond the grave" are not actually to be found in the bible, they are just your intretation of what the bible says.

You have already admitted that you find the bible presents "conflicting pictures" [post 118, 137] "leaves details up in the air" (post 125) , that certain books in the bible are "very difficult to interpret" (post 192) and that it isn't "clear to [you] what exactly [Paul] means" when he spoke on the subject. In view of this, could it be possible that you have misunderstood the verses in question?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:34 am

hoghead1 wrote: Death, in the Bible, is not the end, it is the beginning of a whole new existence.

There is indeed a hope for the dead, but your belief is that for all intents and purposes death doesn't actually exist since the dead continue to live. This is not a bible teaching.

You say the "resurrection is resurrection of the body"* (post 188). But the word resurrection in scriptures means "a standing [back] up" as in a standing back up to life. If you come back to life, first one needs to be without life. If the whole person is ONLY body and not another separate component within that body, then the person* must first need stop living in order to return (stand back up) to life.

*In post 196 you state "the person will be fully raised, not just his or her body"

Basically you seem believe what most the mainstream religions, the ancient pagans and pretty much most believers on this forum, that is, as you put it "when you die you do live on" ie that dead people are still "alive". The only thing is, most of the above believe this is possible because we have an immortal (invisible) soul that survives the destruction of the whole body. Since you say we are wholly physical and that the whole person doesn't have an invisible soul, how do you reconcile the reduction of the body to "dust" with the whole physical person CONTINUING to live while being "dead"?

You believe that the "Survival [is] in physical form" (post 129), that we "continue on" although dead, but the physical whole person does NOT "survive" death (and no? that the atoms that make up the body continue to exist cannot be said to be the survival of the whole person, or be used to demonstrate that person's consciousness and personality survive, since those atoms will in part go on to become part of other physical objects, people and animals).

You claim we have "bodies beyond the grave" presumably that our present bodies [b]survive death[/b] but that is demonstratively false since the body can be observed to be reduced to dust (which can be scatted to the wind). How then can you suggest the whole person survives death?

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:22 am

hoghead1 wrote: The idea I have in mind, which I see as supported by Scripture, is that we continue on in another kind of body.

Could it be that a person dies (ceases to exist) and then (after a period of time of not existing which we will call "being DEAD" rather than being alive in a transformed state) is later recreated (resurrected) in another body whether physical (flesh and blood) or be given another kind of body (spirit body)?

JW

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:42 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
hoghead1 wrote: Yes, correct. On one hand, we never cease to exist, as the Bible emphasizes.
The bible never says this. You are mistaken, possibly projecting.

JW

Technically it does exist in scripture however the one that says it is a known liar.

Eve said, "But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die." At this the serpent said to the woman: You certainly will not die." Gen 3:3, 4.

Definition of Die: 'to stop living'.

Did God lie when he said they would stop living? Is Satan the truth teller in the A&E account? 1 Timothy 2:14 says, "but the woman was thoroughly deceived...". Hoghead is going to have to decide if he has been thoroughly deceived and if he has, by whom.

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:53 pm

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]
Yes, the Bible dos give conflicting pictures of the after line. There is certainly no doubt about that. However, the Bible does have many passages that clearly claim we do live on after death. For example, the Bible, in accounts of Sheol, clearly indicate we live on, though as trembling shades, as we find in Isa. 14, for example. and elsewhere. As IU mentioned earlier, Paul seems to equate our resurrection with the end of the world. However, Christ himself, in Lk. 16 and also 23, makes it plain we go immediately to Heaven or Hell. How to reconcile Christ with Paul? Some believe that there are two judgments, a preliminary immediately when you die, then a later, more final one. I am not particularly happy with that solution. But that is another story. Either way, the point is we do survive the grave, one way or the other, whether immediately or whether we have to wait for the end of teh world.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:51 pm

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to JehovahsWitness]
Yes, the Bible dos give conflicting pictures of the after line. There is certainly no doubt about that. However, the Bible does have many passages that clearly claim we do live on after death. For example, the Bible, in accounts of Sheol, clearly indicate we live on, though as trembling shades, as we find in Isa. 14, for example. and elsewhere. As IU mentioned earlier, Paul seems to equate our resurrection with the end of the world. However, Christ himself, in Lk. 16 and also 23, makes it plain we go immediately to Heaven or Hell. How to reconcile Christ with Paul? Some believe that there are two judgments, a preliminary immediately when you die, then a later, more final one. I am not particularly happy with that solution. But that is another story. Either way, the point is we do survive the grave, one way or the other, whether immediately or whether we have to wait for the end of teh world.

The conflicting pictures reflect problems we have in reading what is there, and in interpreting what we conclude is there.

The conflict is not between Christ and Paul.