Resurrection, what is it?

[Checkpoint]

We are familiar with the word, and know what it is in a general sense.

Yet when it comes down to it, our views of exactly what it means, what it involves, and why it is promised, vary, probably more than we realise.

That is because how we see it reflects how we see the creation of man, and our ultimate destiny.

What do you think resurrection is, and why is it an essential part of God's plan?

Does it refer to only the body, or to the person? If to the person, in what way?

What about the resurrection of Jesus, is it the same for us as it was for him?

Is the resurrection of the unsaved any different?

Acts 24:15

having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

[Yahu]

The "virgins" are metaphorical for the fact that the 144,000 co-rulers with Christ are SPIRITUALLY PURE. They have not defiled themselves with committing spiritual adultery....with accepting lies about God.

Sorry, but you don't get to redefine words to suite your doctrine (yet again). Virgin means virgin and confirms that they are physically pure by not being with women. Spiritual adultery has to do with following pagan gods or a false representation of Yah, so again JW don't quality. Besides that, the 144,000 are not the bride of Christ. The church is at the wedding feast while the 144,000 are doing their calling. They do not rule for eternity. Priest and king are the top level overcomers from among the churches as presented in Rev 3.

So JW follow replacement theology that they, and not the Jews (Israelites) are the Father's new chosen people. It figures. We can only be grafted into Israel, not replace them. Revelation is dealing with the fulfilling of the old covenant with Israel to fullfill the rest of His promised to them and the completion of the 70th week of Daniel. The only Christians referenced are those already in heaven (after chapter 3) or come to salvation by the 144000 and the 2 witnesses. Revelation mostly deals with the salvation and restoration of Israel and their final acknowledgement of Yeshua as their messiah coming as king. It is the Bride of Christ that comes back as the army of Yeshua at the battle of Armageddon.

BTW, I never said that women couldn't rule with Yeshua. It is the 144,000 that are all male, and they don't rule as the Bride of Christ. It is the Jews that inherit the earth and the Bride that rules with Christ for ETERNITY (,not 1000 years) and there are a lot more then 144,000 of us. The positions of authority are listed in Rev 2&3 for the overcomers within the 7 churches, not for the 144,000.

The 144,000 are witnesses that final accept Yeshua as messiah after the start of the tribulation and are ALL Jewish men. They are only present until mid-trib. It is the two witnesses that are left for the 2nd half, the great tribulation.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

Mankind's ultimate destiny has always been life on Earth in paradise conditions.

I wonder where onewithhim might have got that notion from?

Any ideas?

onewithhim I think, is ignoring me, but maybe some other Christian might want to help me out with some scripture.

Thanks.

She gets it from a number of verses.

To find her take, her quotes of those, you would need to work through her posts.

For starters, see her post 15, the last post of this thread:

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 281#823281

[Yahu]

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

Mankind's ultimate destiny has always been life on Earth in paradise conditions.

I wonder where onewithhim might have got that notion from?
Any ideas?

onewithhim I think, is ignoring me, but maybe some other Christian might want to help me out with some scripture.

Thanks.

Ideas from a JW? They don't think for themselves. They just quote WT doctrine like a broken recorded.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 39 by Checkpoint]

Mankind's ultimate destiny has always been life on Earth in paradise conditions.

I wonder where onewithhim might have got that notion from?
Any ideas?

onewithhim I think, is ignoring me, but maybe some other Christian might want to help me out with some scripture.

Thanks.

She gets it from a number of verses.

To find her take, her quotes of those, you would need to work through her posts.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[JehovahsWitness]

Ideas from a JW? They don't think for themselves. They just quote WT doctrine like a broken recorded.

There are over 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses on the earth, without mind reading capacities knowing how their decions are made, is impossible.

Personally I therefore refrain from calling get a group stupid, another brainwashed or another gullible. Of course I have things I could say about atheists or Catholics, Jews or indeed those that insist on calling get Jesus "Yeshua", but I think this forum is not about uncourtious sweeping jugements. I am not of course a moderator though so I will look out for a lead on peppering my remarkableks about how all atheists, homosexuels or Messianic Jews ect. think or fail to as the case may be.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

Mankind's ultimate destiny has always been life on Earth in paradise conditions.

I wonder where onewithhim might have got that notion from?
Any ideas?

onewithhim I think, is ignoring me, but maybe some other Christian might want to help me out with some scripture.

Thanks.

The notion of a * PARADISE on EARTH* is deducted from a number of Bible verses, a selection are presented below:

Isaiah 11: 9
There shall be no harm or ruin on all my holy mountain; for THE EARTH shall be filled with knowledge of the LORD, as water covers the sea." -- New American Bible

Ecclesiastes 1: 4
"One generation goes and another comes; but THE EARTH is forever*."

Proverbs 2 v 21, 22 Douay-Rheims Bible
"For they that are upright shall dwell in THE EARTH, and the simple shall continue in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. -- King James Bible

Matthew 5: 5 American Standard Version
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit THE EARTH."

Matthew 6 v 10 Young's Literal Translationn "Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on THE EARTH."

Isaiah 11: 9 " They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because THE EARTH will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea." NWT

Psalms 115:16 "The heavens belong to the LORD, but he has given THE EARTH to all humanity." New Living Translation (2007)

PSALMS 72v8
May he also rule from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of THE EARTH. New American Standard Bible (1995)

Psalms 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess THE EARTH, and they will reside forever upon it."

Psalms 37:11:
"But the meek ones themselves will possess THE EARTH, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 46 by JehovahsWitness]




[center]An eternal earth with eternal people on it
Part one[/center]

Psalms 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess THE EARTH, and they will reside forever upon it."

Ok, great.. that passage sure seems to mean that people will live on the earth forever, alright !!
Thanks for that.

Question:

• How does that passage work with the idea that the earth will not survive for ever? Isn't the destruction of the earth inevitable, according the the best modern day science?

http://www.alternet.org/environment/doo ... rding-nasa

[JehovahsWitness]

Ok, great.. that passage sure seems to mean that people will live on the earth forever, alright !!
Thanks for that.

Question:

• Isn't the destruction of the earth inevitable, according the the best modern day science?

http://www.alternet.org/environment/doo ... rding-nasa

Excellent question I'll be sure to go over to the sub-forum "Science and Religion" to see if someone over there has supplied an answer.

How does that passage work with the idea that the earth will not survive for ever?

I do not take Scriptures that seem to be suggesting such a thing to be speaking literally but figuratively.


JW

[OnceConvinced]

Ideas from a JW? They don't think for themselves. They just quote WT doctrine like a broken recorded.

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]




[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Oh.. it's not REALLY, really true.. it's only POETICALLY true[/center]

How does that passage work with the idea that the earth will not survive for ever?

I do not take Scriptures that seem to be suggesting such a thing to be speaking literally but figuratively.

Oh.
It's just poetry.

I get it.. nothing here means what it actually says..
So, when the Bible says that righteous people will live on earth eternally...

A METAPHOR ONLY?
A metaphor for WHAT, exactly?

( thanks for the lovely compliment, by the way, much appreciated )