Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

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Elijah John
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Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

arian
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Post #271

Post by arian »

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to arian]

I think you maybe have gotten a little confused about John. It does not sstate the Word had a beginning. Rather, it is affirming that the Word eternally preexisted and therefore already existed at the beginning of the world.
LOL, your Trinity rhetoric is shining through my scholar friend! Where do you see: "Rather, it is affirming that the Word eternally preexisted and therefore already existed at the beginning of the world" ANYWHERE in John 1 ??

I on the other hand see John, verse 1 "In the beginning was the Word" and I have read the whole chapter, the whole John, .. the whole NT and I don't see what you said ANYWHERE!?
Have you ever thought about giving up religion and being "Born Again"? You know, in the Newness of your mind so you wouldn't "see" things in the Bible that is clearly not there.

In the beginning was who?
A. "The Word"
Does God have a beginning?
A. Yes, it was when God created/beget His Son Word, .. that marked a beginning with God, .. NOT 'for-God'.
God is both Infinite and Eternal, no beginning nor end, but "Gods Only Begotten Son was, .. aahh, .. begotten. so He had a beginning, .. it was when God created/beget Him. Jesus even said: "I am the beginning and the end, Alpha and Omega" so I don't understand how scholars can deny this and make Jesus Eternal and Infinite?

John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.


Look again, here is an "image" of this: "In the beginning was Eve, and Eve was with Adam, and Eve was Adam (before God took her out of him). Simple right? No long confusing man-made religious doctrine necessary.
hoghead1 wrote:The passage, correctly translated, reads that the Word was God, not "a" god, but God.
I agree 100%, that is what I read in John 1 also. Only don't ignore the verses before and after or you'll get the wrong translation. Like what these verses are talking about?
Tell me, what is John 1 talking about?

For me, John 1 is revealing HOW God created EVERYTHING.
1. It introduces Gods Son "Word".
2. Also 'how' God created every 'thing'
3. Finally WHY God created everything.

John 1 is the most amazing eye opening chapter, because it paints the 'Big Picture', it reveals the "Answer for Everything", and of course Satan had to pervert this revelation at all costs. He did this with his doctrine called "The Trinity Doctrine", which is what? It is a 'divination', or a story from the dark side.

God reveals His message to His chosen Prophets/Servants/Disciples from Heaven.

Satan on the other hand divines his lies to servants/mediums, .. Christians who graduated with a degree in "Divination" from accredited Schools of Divinity, or a Trinity-College, and he does that from the "supernatural" realm.

ALL religions worship some supernatural beings as gods who divine to them. My God, the One .. the Only Possible One (because there can't exist another Infinite) is not one of your god/gods you study in theology, which in Greek means "the study of gods". This is why no Religion knows our Infinite Creator, because religion by definition is the worship of god/gods created by said religion.

This is why to me it's funny when I see one religious denomination going against another religious denomination, .. it's like when I used to watch black kids fighting back in Detroit because the other called him a "nigger".

"Who you calling a nigga, Nigga? .. I ain't your nigger!" .. and then like in the old Batman show; Wham! Bang! Pow!

In religion it's: "Your deity is not the true deity, you pervert the Bible!" LOL
hoghead1 wrote:True, some pictorial images of the Trinity due represents it as a triangle, which, by the way, predates Freemasonry, the Shriners, and all that.
They're all religions, and it all started right after God chased Cain away from the land of Eden. Man needs God like children need parents, so instead of repenting and apologizing to daddy, man gets angry and creates his own gods even if they are deities/demons who reside in the supernatural realm.

Lucifer: "Naaaw, you don't need God, you can create your own, as many as you want! Heck, I'll be your god, the one-true-deity, and if you bow down and worship me, I'LL GIVE YOU THE WORLD, .. and you can kill as many people as you want! Heck, I'll even help you open a "Children's Cancer Hospital" where you can kill the children with the cure, lol, you will really enjoy that, .. I know I do!"
hoghead1 wrote:I'm still not sure what your concern is about it. There are a number of Trinitarian models or theories. There is the immanent theory of the Trinity, the economic theory of the Trinity, the social theory of the Trinity, the modal theory of the Trinity, the psychological theory of the Trinity, etc. I don't know where to begin, because I'm still not sure what your concern is or what, if any, of the literature here you have looked at.
That is truly sad that you don't see the irony in them "Trinitarian models/theories" as you said. But coming from a Religious Scholar, that is expected; "If you don't like one confusing trinity story, hack, we got all kinds you can choose from!" .. anything as long as you remain blind to the truth, .. which is what?
As I said, it is that you will NEVER find our Infinite Creator "I Am" in any religion, He is just not welcome. People have accepted even the most confusing and outrageous doctrines over God.
hoghead1 wrote:There is debate over what the plurality in Gen. 1 really means. Some think it is God talking to angels; others think it is a residual of polytheism, which ancient Israel was prone to; others think it may refer to the Trinity.
Here, let me help you cut through the confusion of Gen 1, .. read John 1 without adding or taking away from it. John 1 reveals who God was talking to in Genesis 1, .. I mean dear Lord, see what I mean by religion surviving on keeping their sheep walking by 'blind faith'??

Read it man, open your eyes, step outside of your religious indoctrination at least long enough to grasp this:

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Now look; Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
.. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Who was God talking to now? Come on, it's someone who was there "in the beginning WITH God" and "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made", can you guess who that was? If not, see if John 1 gives you any clues?

Now let's recap: "God created man in His own Image.
Who was this man God is talking about? ADAM, right?
Now it says: "male and female created he them"
I doubt God created Adam as a tranny, so Eve must be the "female", correct?

So If Adam represented the image of God (according to the Bible), Eve must represent the image of His Son Word! Which concludes who God was talking to, and what "image" He was talking about, .. right?
hoghead1 wrote:If and when you are looking for guidance, you should read up as much as possible on the history and traditions of the Trinity. That way, you will have a well-informed data base to draw upon.
I have, and debated the Trinity to kingdom-come. Everyone (included Scholars, Mega-church TV Ministers etc.) admitted that the Trinity Doctrine is the most confusing doctrine ever created by the Catholic Church. NO ONE can understand it.

Now I ask you: What was so difficult for Constantine to understand about Jesus revelation of His Father and God? He continuously quoted OT Scripture stating who He was; The Son of God, .. Gods Word, .. the One prophesied to come etc. hundreds of times, .. so what did Constantine find difficult in understanding and accepting in THAT??

Here, I'll tell you what Constantine and his Roman pagan many/plural-god worshiping temple-Priests found difficult to accept in the Jewish One God, the Only Possible Infinite Creator Jesus revealed: "It did not fit in with the thousands of other pagan gods he and his Roman empire worshipped for sooo long. So you see, there was no choice but to turn the Hebrew God "I Am" into just another pagan god with just another fantastic story who this god really was, .. just another deity like himself.
hoghead1 wrote:Just saying the heck with all that, I'll just pray and come up with right answer is simply a naïve, head-in-the sand approach.
You just described the RC-Christian Religion, and its 40,000 plus denominations. Funny how I keep saying it, but you keep "not hearing it", as if "you had ears, but could not hear"? I do not worship any god/gods created by any religion, .. my God is real, I can reveal Him to anyone who is able to deny his religion long enough to understand what the Bible really teaches.

You will never, .. that's right, NEVER find our Creator God, or know and understand His Son Word (now also named Jesus the Christ) in any religious documents, books, literature in whole taught by some religious organization/school/College, but by "seeking, knocking", all the while praying that God would grant you wisdom to see/understand both what the Bible says, and what your eyes reveal in nature, .. the world around you. Like in science.
hoghead1 wrote:It's a fad with many today to go what's called "Bible dipping." Just pray about a problem, pop the Bible open to whatever page you fall upon, and just drop your hand, and presto, there is the answer. Total nonsense. It doesn't work that way.
Funny, I attended one Christian Religious Denomination for years that did just that. They would hold the Bible and quickly release it and let it open to whatever crease it opened to, so we heard a lot of the same stories. lol.

Yes, it doesn't work that way, because God is real, and He loves those that go out of their way to seek Him, risking life and limb, even family and religion to find Him, yet He is not far from any of us, our mind/spirit/soul is, .. and is of God.

Take care hoghead1!
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

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Re: Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #272

Post by hoghead1 »

[Replying to arian]

I find your inflammatory rhetoric and personal insults totally inappropriate in a serious theological discussion group.

Elijah John
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Post #273

Post by Elijah John »

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to arian]

I find your inflammatory rhetoric and personal insults totally inappropriate in a serious theological discussion group.
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My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #274

Post by Elijah John »

arian wrote:

Yes, the theological (study of god/gods) explanation, as in religion do make God out to be "just one of the gods in religions, the biggest one, .. or most powerful etc. but that is NOT what the Bible teaches.

...................................


Naming our Infinite Creator like someone names a pet is wrong..
From the first comment here, it is obvious you believe in the principle of Divine revelation, and that the Bible at least contains some of that revelation, correct?

The Bible also teaches that God revealed His name to us, we did not name Him.

Moses and the Prophets and King David use the Divine name almost 7000 in the Hebrew Bible.

So, if God revealed His name to us, how can it be wrong to use it, or call on Him...by name?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
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Post #275

Post by Elijah John »

arian wrote:
Have you ever thought about giving up religion and being "Born Again"? You know, in the Newness of your mind so you wouldn't "see" things in the Bible that is clearly not there.

Satan on the other hand divines his lies to servants/mediums, .. Christians who graduated with a degree in "Divination" from accredited Schools of Divinity, or a Trinity-College, and he does that from the "supernatural" realm.

ALL religions worship some supernatural beings as gods who divine to them. My God, the One .. the Only Possible One (because there can't exist another Infinite) is not one of your god/gods you study in theology, which in Greek means "the study of gods". This is why no Religion knows our Infinite Creator, because religion by definition is the worship of god/gods created by said religion.

This is why to me it's funny when I see one religious denomination going against another religious denomination, .. it's like when I used to watch black kids fighting back in Detroit because the other called him a "nigger".

"Who you calling a nigga, Nigga? .. I ain't your nigger!" .. and then like in the old Batman show; Wham! Bang! Pow!

In religion it's: "Your deity is not the true deity, you pervert the Bible!" LOL

They're all religions, and it all started right after God chased Cain away from the land of Eden. Man needs God like children need parents, so instead of repenting and apologizing to daddy, man gets angry and creates his own gods even if they are deities/demons who reside in the supernatural realm.

Lucifer: "Naaaw, you don't need God, you can create your own, as many as you want! Heck, I'll be your god, the one-true-deity, and if you bow down and worship me, I'LL GIVE YOU THE WORLD, .. and you can kill as many people as you want! Heck, I'll even help you open a "Children's Cancer Hospital" where you can kill the children with the cure, lol, you will really enjoy that, .. I know I do!"

That is truly sad that you don't see the irony in them "Trinitarian models/theories" as you said. But coming from a Religious Scholar, that is expected; "If you don't like one confusing trinity story, hack, we got all kinds you can choose from!" .. anything as long as you remain blind to the truth, .. which is what?


see what I mean by religion surviving on keeping their sheep walking by 'blind faith'??

Read it man, open your eyes, step outside of your religious indoctrination at least long enough to grasp this:


:warning: Moderator Warning


You are entitled to your opinions, theories and beliefs, but on this site you are not entitled to preach, demonize other religions, scholastic disciplines or their adherents.

You don't have to accept other religons, or scholastic credentials or authority, but to suggest satanic influence, is way over the line here on this site.

Plus, your presentation is inflammatory and offensive.


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My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #276

Post by 2timothy316 »

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 267 by 2timothy316


I'm not sure I follow you at all here. You pulled up a brief excerpt from an article about Constantine, which I agree with. Please do not do my thinking for me, or put words in my mouth. Now, if you wish to challenge a particular point I have made, then you should identify it and provide your counterargument.
Do you remember saying the following?
hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 241 by onewithhim]
I find it hard to believe that the Watchtower Society is doing anything near serious scholarly research. It's materials show no real degree of scholarship and it is noted for its vicious anti-intellectual propaganda, raving against higher education, which views as a thing of the Devil.
Care to retract your statement about what I learn? After all you did say,
You pulled up a brief excerpt from an article about Constantine, which I agree with.
If you agree with that do you agree with the following?

"IN THE year 325 C.E., Roman Emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. His objective: to settle the much debated issue of God’s relationship to his Son. Among those present was the man regarded the most learned of his age, Eusebius of Caesarea. Eusebius had studied the Scriptures diligently and had been a defender of Christian monotheism.

At the Council of Nicaea, “Constantine himself presided,� relates The Encyclopædia Britannica, “actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.�

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Post #277

Post by hoghead1 »

[Replying to 2timothy316]

OK, well, let me clarify a couple of important points here. One is that I am talking about the Watchtower Society, not necessarily yours. Now, according to the Watchtower's corrupted version of history, there was initially a unified, Jehovah's Witness-type church, which was later busted up by the mean, nasty Trinitarians, as I pointed out in an earlier post. As a theologian, I have received all kinds of emails form JW's denouncing every church father from Tertullian onward as a child of the Devil who destroyed the true church. However, a basic flaw in their argument is that facts of history indicate no such unified church initially there. Rather, we are dealing with sects that often feuded. That's why I spoke about Christianities. Incidentally, if there was a group, kind of fringe element, that broke up a unified church, it was the Arians or anti-Trinitarians. Read Constantine's letter to Arius, where he complains that Arius and company are disturbing the harmony of an already well-established Christian church.

The Watchtower's understanding of history is suspicious from day one. The Watchtower has a long, proven track record of generating hate-mongering propaganda aimed at Jews and Catholics. Rutherford, who was president of the Society for 25 years, was a notorious raving Jew-baiter. At a Bible Students' convention, around 1922, he described the Jew as "the hook-nosed, stooped-shouldered little individual who stands on the street corner trying to gyp you out of every nickel you've got." This hate-mongering still continues today. A Watchtower publication titled "You Can Live Forever In paradise on Earth" (1985) asks about the Jews, "Was God really their father. It answers, "Not at all. Jews are from their father the Devil." It's no ssurprise the Watchtower Society tried to get in bed with Hitler. In a previous post, I provided copes of their Declaration of Facts and letter to the Fuhrer. Here is a sample as to how they understand history, taken from their Declaration of Facts.

"The greatest and most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: `The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.' We have no fight with any of these persons mentioned, but, as the witnesses for Jehovah and in obedience to his commandment set forth in the Scriptures, we are compelled to call attention to the truth concerning the same in order that the people may be enlightened concerning God and his purpose."

Now, maybe the JW's think this is real history. And maybe it appears that way to individuals with a Nazi-like mind-et. But I leave a lot to be desired for those of us who seek a more objective understanding of history.

At the same time, the Watchtower Society is notorious for publishing anti-intellectual rants against higher education. Russell, one of the pillar of the Society wrote, "I advise all Christian not to send their children to colleges or universities; for if they do, they will risk great harm through infidelity and unbelief, and they will be doing their children a positive injury." The Watchtower, 1969, Mar.15, p.171, states, "Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school...Do no be influenced by them. Do not let them brainwash you with the Devil's propaganda." On and on it goes. Demonizing scholastics is a major tenet of the Watchtower Society. Therefore, the Society has absolutely zero historical credibility in my book.

arian
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Re: Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #278

Post by arian »

hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to arian]

I find your inflammatory rhetoric and personal insults totally inappropriate in a serious theological discussion group.
It's called debating, this is where you point out my "inflammatory rhetoric and personal insults", .. The Jews did it to Jesus, so if I'm here speaking in His name, it shouldn't be any different for me, right?

the·ol·o·gy
noun: theology
the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
•religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.

from Latin theologia, from Greek, from theos ‘god’ + -logia (see -logy).


Tell me, what did the Greeks know about our Hebrew God, or about the Jewish Jesus? Theology is the study of gods, not necessarily the God of the Bible.

What is the god in Christianity?
He is a "Deity who rules from the supernatural realm", .. should I say more?

And to use the Bible, and those words from the Bible and give a deity who rules from the supernatural realm the credit is blasphemy!

A House Divided Cannot Stand
Mathew 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?�

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.�


The Unpardonable Sin
Matthew 12:31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Now please tell me what did Jesus consider "blasphemy", the unpardonable sin? It was to this:

Jesus was casting out demons by the Power of the Holy Spirit, for God is Holy and Spirit, correct? Now what did the Pharisees call the Holy Spirit Jesus was casting out demons by?

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.�

To which Jesus replied:
".. but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come!"

My dear friend, instead of acting as if I offended you, shouldn't you, being a Bible Scholar fall on your knees and ask God to help you stop referring to God as a Deity who rules from the supernatural realm?

Beelzebub/Lucifer who is the ruler of the demons now resides in the supernatural realm because him and his angels were cast out of Heaven, where God reigns from, .. not the supernatural realm.

God, who resides in Heaven reveals His will through His Prophets, Apostles and now through those Believers who have been "born again" in the "newness of their mind"

But Satan and his angels, after being thrown out of Heaven now reside in earths supernatural realm, from where they "divine" their half truths and lies to mediums, Diviners, those who go to Schools of Divinity to get their degree in divination.

Constantine and his Catholic church took our Lord Jesus, and deified Him, making him a deity, a god through their man-made trinity doctrine, making Our Infinite and Eternal God a deity also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faC_NA2bJO0

Just one of the many evidences out there of the creation of the Christian Religion.
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

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Post #279

Post by Elijah John »

arian wrote:
My dear friend, instead of acting as if I offended you, shouldn't you, being a Bible Scholar fall on your knees and ask God to help you stop referring to God as a Deity who rules from the supernatural realm?


But Satan and his angels, after being thrown out of Heaven now reside in earths supernatural realm, from where they "divine" their half truths and lies to mediums, Diviners, those who go to Schools of Divinity to get their degree in divination.
:warning: Moderator Final Warning

Totally inappropriate. You are preaching and in a very offensive manner, using your faith as a rhetorical weapon against a fellow debator. And that is a personal attack. You have been with us long enough to know better, and if you want to stay with us, change your approach and get back to civil debating.

Please review the Rules.


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Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #280

Post by onewithhim »

arian wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
I apologize for not acknowledging your post #8. One thing for sure, "E.G." got good explanations for his erroneous views.

I didn't follow some of your comments, like Eve representing the Son. That's a new one to me. I think the explanation of John 1:1---"and the Word was God"---that shows that the actual statement of John was "and the Word was a god" is the most reliable explanation. People at that time used the title "god" to refer to powerful humans and angels as well as God Almighty.....the CONTEXT defining the usage, and also the rules for translating from Greek to English must be considered, which "the Word was God" adherents do not consider.
sorry for the late response, hoping to catch up!?

Yes, the theological (study of god/gods) explanation, as in religion do make God out to be "just one of the gods in religions, the biggest one, .. or most powerful etc. but that is NOT what the Bible teaches.

God said: "Let us make man in our own image" remember? "Male and female He created them", .. correct?

The religious theologians made God out to be a mentally ill, deified man, a deity, who has a "multiple personality disorder" who talks to himself.

As if that wasn't bad enough, they turned our Infinite and Eternal Creator who Himself said that His home was in Heaven, into three persons, .. deities (both Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians call God a Deity) who rules from earths supernatural realm, .. which is where Satan and his angels were cast down into, where he roams around like a "roaring lion" (sounds familiar?) to devour whom he may!

God said "let us make man, .." which means He was talking to His Son Word, by and through whom He created all things including Adam and Eve.

Adam represents the image of God, and Eve (being taken out of Adam, just as God beget His Son Word from within himself) represents Gods Son.

In the beginning was the Word, .. God has no beginning nor end. So the beginning with God was when He created/begotten His Son Word, .. who "was with God", and before that, "was God", .. just as Eve before God took her out of Adam "was Adam"!

It's all there in both OT and the New, just have to have the Spirit of God put it all together for you, .. and not some religious Scholar who is heavily influenced by his religion, especially influenced by someone like the Pope, and his Catholic Religion.
onewithhim wrote:Um, you said that JWs "make up a dozen more" blasphemies, to take the place of the one they deny. That surprised me. Just what would you say are the "blasphemies" that they make up?

I stopped trying to figure out who was saying what, so I'll stop here. I enjoyed many of your comments, but I got confused as to what E.G. was saying and what you were saying.

:-|
Naming our Infinite Creator like someone names a pet is wrong.
Calling "Gods Only Begotten Son Word" a "Cherubim", .. a deity who resides in the supernatural realm is blasphemy.

Lucifer was an anointing Cherub, who now has been cast down to earths supernatural realm from where he acts "Like the Most High", so both God and His Son Jesus are made into Lucifer and some sun-god, .. deities, men, .. three men/persons deified to godhood who represent the "idea" god.

God bless.
I agree that Jehovah spoke to his Son in heaven and said, "Let us make man in our image." They made humans in their image, that is, with their attributes of love, power, wisdom, and justice.

I also agree with what you said about teaching that God is a "trinity." However, it seems like you are contradicting yourself when you say that the Son "was God," at any point, which you did indeed say.

I don't know where in the Bible it suggests that Eve represented God's Son. Where would that be?

I also don't understand why you vehemently object to God having a name. The Bible has presented God's name 7,000 times, all throughout the Old Testament, in the original Hebrew/Aramaic texts. You compare having a name with being a pet? Then what do you call PEOPLE, all of whom have names?

What is your reason for saying that Jesus was not an angel in the spiritual realm before he came to earth (and afterward)? Why is this "blasphemy"? Didn't he himself say that he came down from heaven?

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