If you don't believe the Bible.

[postroad]

Christians will often insist that certain texts can't be understood to actually mean what is plainly stated. Given enough believers I imagine that most of the Bible would be in dispute. The question is, why should the sceptic believe the Bible if Christianity does not.[/i]

[ttruscott]

Did God command the Israelites to sacrifice their firstborn? Why yes he did.

Ezekiel 20:25-26New International Version (NIV)

25 So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live; 26 I defiled them through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.’

This proves GOD takes responsibility for the evil that comes to HIS people by HIS decision to have them labour under the statutes of the pagans BY ALLOWING THEM to be influenced by their pagan neighbours until they tried their way to live. Statutes in this case cannot be referring to Moses' law which is elsewhere always praised for its perfection.

Gave them other statutes would in this case mean that HE gave them up to other (pagan) statutes by allowing them access to them and not interfering with their love for the pagan people. GAVE does not mean COMMAND as you yourself have proven in your next quote.

Jeremiah 7:31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

Just like people love to blame GOD for Pharaoh's hard heart when all GOD did was to remove his fear of HIS power so he would do what he really most wanted, that is, to kill Moses and the Israelites which is plainly obvious in the context, so to also claim gave in this verse means to command has no validity when the full context (which you provided yourself) is considered.

[ttruscott]

Did God command the Israelites to sacrifice their firstborn? Why yes he did.

Ezekiel 20:25-26New International Version (NIV)

25 So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live; 26 I defiled them through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.’

I gave proves GOD takes responsibility for the evil that comes to HIS people by HIS decision to have them labour under the statutes of the pagans BY ALLOWING THEM to be influenced by their pagan neighbours until they tried their way to live. Statutes in this case cannot be referring to Moses' law which is elsewhere always praised for its perfection.

Gave them other statutes would in this case mean that HE gave them up to or over to other (pagan) statutes by allowing them access to them and not interfering with their love for the pagan people. GAVE does not mean COMMAND as you yourself have proven in your next quote.

Jeremiah 7:31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

Just like people love to blame GOD for Pharaoh's hard heart when all GOD did was to remove his fear of HIS power so he would do what he really most wanted, that is, to kill Moses and the Israelites which is plainly obvious in the context, so too also claim gave in this verse means to command has no validity when the full context (which you provided yourself) is considered.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 49 by JehovahsWitness]

It is special pleading to give one moral actor a pass and to apply a different definition of moral and immoral to god than to humans. You can keep saying it isn't, but that doesn't make it true. Once again, if it makes you uncomfortable to be a hypocrite, it should. You should consider the ramifications of your positions.

There is no double standard to having two standards. Kids under 18 cannot drink or smoke pot but adults can in some places. Two standards, not a double standard, nor special pleading...just the way it is in our society.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 91 by ttruscott]
Well if you say so??? Have you also been authorized by the Holy Spirit to add to the word of God?
As to the Law of Moses as we have it today.

Exodus 13:2
“Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether human or animal. Leviticus 27:28-29New International Version (NIV)

28 “‘But nothing that a person owns and devotes[a] to the Lord—whether a human being or an animal or family land—may be sold or redeemed; everything so devoted is most holy to the Lord.

29 “‘No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; they are to be put to death.

[ttruscott]

(it is a common belief among some theistic groups that Satan did indeed "overcome the spirit" in rebellion with god)

Really! Which ones please....

[postroad]

[Replying to post 92 by ttruscott]

Really?

Exodus 9:16
But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

[ttruscott]

God is not subject to any commandments since he himself is the highest authority in existence; He alone reserves the right to declare what is or is not moral (right and just). That said, he choses never to violate his own moral standards because he is entirely righteous and to do so would be against his nature?

God is not subject to any commandments...
Please consider that HE doesn't go against HIS commandments because they do express HIS moral code perfectly and HE is bound by that code as much as anyone since they are a perfect reflection of who HE is. That is, they are HIS nature and everyone is bound by their nature, no?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 11 by bjs]
Oh come now! Let's not be obstinant here. Even within the minuscule population of thirsts represented here there exists a "difference " of opinions on matters of doctrine so central to orthodox Christianity that few centuries past would have been settled at the stake.

You chose the C&A forum: Please list these differences of opinion on matters of doctrine that are central to Christianity and

please show your proof people were staked for these differences.

Listen carefully. The matter of people being killed for their beliefs is a settled historical fact. If you dispute this, go start a new thread about it.

My post was to introduce you to the fact it is polite argument to give such details when the argument is made...

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 92 by ttruscott]

Really?

Exodus 9:16
But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

raised you up - means to make Pharaoh king, knowing his own hard heartedness would take him to war and his death so that all generations could hear of GOD's power and Deity.

No implication HE made Moses' best friend and most ardent supporter suddenly hate him here...an accusation that just cannot be forced to fit the story.

[Blastcat]

[center]A wildly double standard[/center]

You miss the point. It isn't so much that we you apply a different standard to our GOD but that we don't judge HIM by HIS actions just because we hate these same actions when done by a sinner.

SO, when your god does something evil, it's ok.
When you think that a SINNER does the same darn thing, it's not ok.

WOO.

At the very very least, you have a WILDLY double standard for your god.