Are denominations beneficial?

[Peds nurse]

Colossians 3:15-"Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace."

Do all the different denominations help or hinder this verse?

[JehovahsWitness]

Don't you believe that it's as Paul said and that a true Christian is identified by the fruits of the holy spirit? If so should doctrinal issues be considered the thing that determines the true Christians from the false Christians? What denomination you are part of should surely be irrelevant?

Should doctrinal issues be considered the thing that determines the true Christians from the false Christians?

It is certainly a key determiner. After all, if doctrine* is irrelevant, why did Jesus spend so much time teaching and helping people distinguish true from false? Why did he so strongly condemn the Pharisees and the false religious teachers of his day if doctrine were ultimately irrelevant?

Doctrine is essentially a set of beliefs held by a religious group. Can anyone seriously suggest Jesus didn't indicate that he wanted his followers to believe certain things to be true? What about the doctrine of chosen ones going to heaven after death, an entirely new concept for the Jews of his day, irrelenant? or what of that he "meek shall inherit the earth" "irrelevant". Those that listened to Jesus admitted that he had the "sayings that lead to everlasting life", Jesus said himself he taught what he had been taught by God Almighty and commanded his disciples as their chief mission to go and teach what they had learned. How can anyone suggest that those teachings are somehow inconsequential?

Far from being "irrelevant" Jesus indicated that only by accepting his doctrine (which would ultimately be contained in the bible) would people have access to God, he even went so far as to say, "No one gets to Father except through me!" evidently a central doctrine of the Christian religion.

* Doctrine can be defined as: a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

But did Jesus not mean that true Christians would be "non-denominational", individuals scattered throughout the world but not an organized religion?

No! When Jesus was on earth, he indicated that his followers would be organized into an identifiable group. He mentioned his "church" which would have certain in leadership. The christian church leaders would be able to take disciplinary action on those that didn't conform to God's standards (see Matthew 18:17). Jesus chose 12 men to act in authority in that organized group and told them to stick together as they grew in number (see John 15:4, 5). Thus the true Christian church would be identifiable as a group, it would be a religion, a religion with official teachings and beliefs based on the things Jesus had told them - compare Matthew 28:19, 20.

For further details on this, see an earlier post I wrote: Did Jesus mean to start a a new religion?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 645#792645


What part should LOVE play in identifying the true religion?

Having established that Jesus started a religion, Jesus said "By this all will know you are my disciples if you have love amongst yourselves". Here we have "all" (outsiders non-christians) who would be able to identify Jesus' disciples as a group or a religion because they displayed love "amongst themselves" ie within their group or religion. (see John 13:35)

This group would, according to Jesus' own words be identifiable by this most important fruit of the spirit, LOVE. They would not kill each other because the head of the State in which they lived had declared another country to be "at war". Whether Japanese or German, even during a world war II period, or in any other period in history, this group should not be divided along national or racial borders. They would help and support and love each other as a group and outsiders would be able to point to them as a group (read: an organized religion) and say "those people are applying Jesus mandate to be loving". Of course their love would be extended to those outside the group, but they would be "identifiable" (remember Jesus said "by this *all* will know, ie all outsiders/people not in your religion) by that outstanding quality of their love for God, for others and for each other. The non-denominational christian has no "amongst yourseves" they have love for God and love for others (other people, believer or not) but there is no "amongst yourselves" for they have neglect a chief christian doctrine or dismissed it as irrelevant, that of christian unity.

Don't you believe that it's as Paul said and that a true Christian is identified by the fruits of the holy spirit?

Of course non of the above exempts a Christian from his obligation to show love on a personal level and live their faith by manifesting the fruit of the spirit in all they do as inidividual but it is absolutely false it imply that doing so is all that is required or that just being a loving person, but not being associated with any "denomination" is following Christ.

What denomination you are part of should surely be irrelevant?

In view of the above, it is clear that Jesus did not want his followers split into thousands of different "denominations". But this is not synonymous don't have a religion at all, just be loving to all and tell people you are Christian over the internet. Jesus' words indicate that he wanted his followers to be a an identifiable group in an organized religion marked by love, united in doctrine and zealously doing the work he had commissioned them to do until the end of the system of things, namely that of teaching true doctrine and baptizing those that are receptive into the religion he had established.

CONCLUSION: Christians are under obligation if they choose to bear that name, of doing the works of Jesus' father. This would including teaching true doctrine and being part of a body of united and organized worshipers. To negate that in the name of "avoiding doctrine and denomination" (or saying "its not a religion its a relationship") is to avoid obeying the express commands of the one they claim to be following.


Furher reading: Do You Need Organized Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -religion/


RELATED POSTS

Historically, how did so many Christian denominations come about?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 48#p981548

Does the teachjng of "the great apostasy" contradict Jesus statement at Matthew 16:18?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p996209

If Christianity presents truth, WHY are there so many very different versions... ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 49#p981549

Should Christanity be split into denominations?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 91#p846991

How many baptists groups are there?
viewtopic.php?p=1020139#p1020139

Do all Christian denomination have Gods approval?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 93#p996193

Did Jesus indicate that the many billions of people professing to be Christians will be counted as such by him?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 04#p838304

To read more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 7 by benchwarmer]

On topic to the OP, I would hope that scripture would be used to build bridges between denominations (i.e. help). Though we've just seen a glaring example where burning bridges seems to be the order of the day.

Hope you have a wonderful day Peds, one of my favorite bridge builders on this forum.

Benchwarmer!! It is always a pleasure to converse! I think that in order for bridges to be built, we must first acknowledge we need them! When we lay our differences aside, for a common goal, much can be achieved. I am not sure how to go about breaking the denomination barriers, other than to set an example. If you have any ideas...I would be willing to listen.

You are one of my favorites too...so glad you took the time to reply!

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

We JW, like you, also believe that the majority of people are in a religion that we don't believe to be true. The only difference between our belief and yours is WHICH religions we are referring to.

Since my OP is focusing on Christianity, lets start there. Do you think that the Jehovah Witnesses could find unity with other denominations? If Christians cannot be united, then how can we make an impact on anyone?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

We JW, like you, also believe that the majority of people are in a religion that we don't believe to be true. The only difference between our belief and yours is WHICH religions we are referring to.

Since my OP is focusing on Christianity, lets start there. Do you think that the Jehovah Witnesses could find unity with other denominations? If Christians cannot be united, then how can we make an impact on anyone?

Of course! All the other Christian religions have to do is

- recognize Jehovah as the true God and use the name in their services
- recognize the bible as the sole authority for church teachings
- explain that all Christians have the honor and obligation to preach and send their parishoners from door to door
- explain that God's kingdom is an actual government (not a feeling in your heart) and the only hope for mankind
- reject the TRINITY as a God dishonoring lie
- rid their houses of worship of all idols including crosses
- accept that there is no hellfire or immortal soul
- recongnizee that all good people do not go to heaven
- cease the use of titles such as "holy Father" etc and refer to each other simply as brothers and sisters
- remove all their "clergy class" from office and CEASE taking money for any religious services or bible lessons
- explain that learning or participating in war is incompatible with being a Christian even if war is declared by their country's leaders
- instigate and enforce a system by which unrepentent sinners are expulsed from their congregations
- condemn homosexual activity as abhorrent and god dishonoring
- cease to vote, cease to participate in politics, and remove all their members from public office
- reject the celebration of pagan holidays such as Christmas, easter, Halloween etc
- reject the notion that Jesus' body literally turns into blood during the mass
- "feed" their membership with bible based spiritual truths rather that Christian Rock and stories of the saints



... and encourage their membership to join Jehovah's Witnesses commemorating Jesus this coming April, on the 11th of that month.

That would be a start.


JW

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 11 by Elijah John]

Good point EJ!! I think we get hung up on small things, and make them into really big things! I don't think it is what Paul says, but rather our interpretation of what it means and the value that we give it!


Make your day beautiful!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

That would be a start.

No, it would be the end of any meaningful exchange.

Our way or the highway is not a viable option.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

Say that someone has a speech disorder or a processing problem. Can they be members of your denomination, even if going door to door would not be beneficial for them, or others?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

Say that someone has a speech disorder or a processing problem. Can they be members of your denomination, even if going door to door would not be beneficial for them, or others?

I recently heard of a bible study deaf dumb and blind that is communicating with his feet - when the heart is willing anything is possible! Preaching is part of a Christians sacred service, a part of their worship, so even if door to door is not possible, some kind of preaching or accompanying an able bodied person in some form indoor indoor activity is usually possible.

Love always finds a way!

[youtube][/youtube]


Jose Luis Ayala: This Is My Hope
https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODIntExp/p ... 04_2_VIDEO

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

I don't just think that love finds a way, I think that love is the only way. If the Bible (which we agree is the word of God), says that ALL who believe in me shall not perish, what does that mean to Jehovah Witnesses? Catholics? Protestants? It seems to me that all those rules JW's have, do more harm than they ever could good. I am not saying that Jehovah Witnesses don't do good things for the Kingdom of God, but I feel we could do more as a whole, if we throw our criteria out, and hold on to God's. For, if Jesus forgave the sinner hanging on the cross, what is our excuse of exclusion?

Your friend, peds

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 49 by Peds nurse]

Fair enough. Was the video of any help in answering your question about handicaps?