According to JW's, will the 144 000 be only white men?

[Justin108]

Is there a reason Jehovah's Witness art always depict the 144 000 as all white men? Or is it just coincidence?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 9 by Justin108]

Did you know that you can write to the people that approve what images go into JW books and magazines? You will even get a speedy reply. Write them at the following address with your questions.

Jehovah’s Witnesses
900 Red Mills Road
WALLKILL NY 12589-3223

Have a good day!

So I take it you're not going to address the points I make?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 11 by Justin108]

The question in your thread title has been answered. 'According to JW's, will the 144 000 be only white men?' The answer is no.

Now you want to talk about what is in the mind of an artist. I can't answer that for you but I did give you a way to get an answer straight from the folks that make the illustrations. Is that not satisfactory?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 11 by Justin108]

The question in your thread title has been answered. 'According to JW's, will the 144 000 be only white men?' The answer is no.

Fair enough. So you will leave the other questions unanswered then?

Now you want to talk about what is in the mind of an artist. I can't answer that for you but I did give you a way to get an answer straight from the folks that make the illustrations. Is that not satisfactory?

No because that's not what I asked. True, we do not know the intentions of the artist, but then neither do we know the intentions of the various authors of the Bible. But that never stopped anyone from confidently stating "this is what verse X means". How could you possibly know what the artist intended? You can't. How can you know what the author of a Biblical text intended? Again, you can't. Does this mean you're going to stop telling us what scripture means?

[onewithhim]

Is there a reason Jehovah's Witness art always depict the 144 000 as all white men? Or is it just coincidence?

According to JWs, the 144,000 includes many women. It is brought out in scripture that it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman. "...There is neither male nor female, for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

So we do not teach that only white men go to heaven. The art-work can be called just symbolic and not literal.

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[onewithhim]

The illustrations if you look carefully are not of those humans that could be identified by the skin colour or sex but of those chosen individuals in place in heaven. Once resurrected to heaven these ones will no longer be human but spirit. Of course spirits are invisible to humans and do not have human bodies. Like angels they will not be subject to physicality nor catagorized by sex.

Then why are they depicted as white, bearded men? You agree that these illustrations are not exactly accurate and merely representative. Why then not represent the various spirits with a variety of sexes and races? Is there a reason JW artists chose to represent the 144 000 as white men?

She just explained all that! Could you please not keep asking the same questions over and over? If you don't understand it, let it go, because JW couldn't have explained it any better.

[onewithhim]

LOL

The things people come up with just to so they can argue. That aside lets answer this with scripture.

Let's not. I'm not critiquing scripture, I'm critiquing Jehovah's Witnesses' artwork.

Seeing how there is really no gender with spirit creatures then the illustration isn't accurate there either. So what in the world is going on?

It's an illustration. Don't try to look more into it than that. The illustrator doesn't know what a spirit creature looks like.

As already discussed with JW above, I understand that the illustration is not accurate, but that doesn't answer the question of why the artist chose to represent these 144 000 spirits as white men. If someone were to depict, say, a picture of hell where all the inhabitants are black people, surely you would see the problem here. Whether you believe in hell or not, someone drawing a picture of hell where everyone is black suggests something about the artist.

I know picture books are fun to look at but adults need to eventually graduate to higher learning.

Tell that to JW who insists on posting pictures in half of his responses as though that will somehow strengthen his argument.

It's a kindness when JW attaches pictures to the posts, so that people can get a better understanding of what is being discussed. They help with the explanations.

[Justin108]

Is there a reason Jehovah's Witness art always depict the 144 000 as all white men? Or is it just coincidence?

According to JWs, the 144,000 includes many women. It is brought out in scripture that it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman. "...There is neither male nor female, for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

So we do not teach that only white men go to heaven. The art-work can be called just symbolic and not literal.

.

Ok let me repeat myself again. As has been clarified in post 9, I am not taking issue with the inaccuracy of the artwork, I am taking issue with the representation of the artwork. Granted, post 9 was not directed at you, but considering your fanboy upvote of post 10, I can only assume you read post 9 as well.

So it's symbolic. Symbolic of what? What do thousands of distinctly white male rulers symbolize?

[Justin108]

The illustrations if you look carefully are not of those humans that could be identified by the skin colour or sex but of those chosen individuals in place in heaven. Once resurrected to heaven these ones will no longer be human but spirit. Of course spirits are invisible to humans and do not have human bodies. Like angels they will not be subject to physicality nor catagorized by sex.

Then why are they depicted as white, bearded men? You agree that these illustrations are not exactly accurate and merely representative. Why then not represent the various spirits with a variety of sexes and races? Is there a reason JW artists chose to represent the 144 000 as white men?

She just explained all that! Could you please not keep asking the same questions over and over? If you don't understand it, let it go, because JW couldn't have explained it any better.

JW's answer comes down to "these depictions are not accurate. This is not what spirits actually look like". My follow-up question is why, specifically, depict them as white men then? As opposed to black men? Asian women?

For example: if I asked "why do aliens in movies speak English?" someone might answer "that isn't accurate. Aliens would not speak English". I then ask "why English, specifically? Why not Spanish? Or German?" to which that person replies "oh because that way, more people around the world will understand what the aliens in the movie say, and because the creators of the movie was English"

See the underlined part? That's the kind of answer JW gave me. See the part in bold? That's the kind of answer I want. Not just "it isn't accurate", I want to know why they specifically chose a bunch of white men to represent the rulers.

Is the distinction clear enough for you? Or are you going to accuse me of asking the same question again?

[Justin108]

LOL

The things people come up with just to so they can argue. That aside lets answer this with scripture.

Let's not. I'm not critiquing scripture, I'm critiquing Jehovah's Witnesses' artwork.

Seeing how there is really no gender with spirit creatures then the illustration isn't accurate there either. So what in the world is going on?

It's an illustration. Don't try to look more into it than that. The illustrator doesn't know what a spirit creature looks like.

As already discussed with JW above, I understand that the illustration is not accurate, but that doesn't answer the question of why the artist chose to represent these 144 000 spirits as white men. If someone were to depict, say, a picture of hell where all the inhabitants are black people, surely you would see the problem here. Whether you believe in hell or not, someone drawing a picture of hell where everyone is black suggests something about the artist.

I know picture books are fun to look at but adults need to eventually graduate to higher learning.

Tell that to JW who insists on posting pictures in half of his responses as though that will somehow strengthen his argument.

It's a kindness when JW attaches pictures to the posts, so that people can get a better understanding of what is being discussed. They help with the explanations.

"See this horribly inaccurate picture of heaven I just posted? I hope that helps you understand what heaven will be like... not anything like this"

What use is showing us a picture of what heaven will be like when you agree that this is not what heaven will be like...?

JW: here's a picture to help you understand what heaven will be like
Me: is this what heaven will be like?
JW: no, this is just a picture to help you understand what heaven will be like

Does this make any sense to you...?

[onewithhim]

Is there a reason Jehovah's Witness art always depict the 144 000 as all white men? Or is it just coincidence?

According to JWs, the 144,000 includes many women. It is brought out in scripture that it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman. "...There is neither male nor female, for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

So we do not teach that only white men go to heaven. The art-work can be called just symbolic and not literal.

.

Ok let me repeat myself again. As has been clarified in post 9, I am not taking issue with the inaccuracy of the artwork, I am taking issue with the representation of the artwork. Granted, post 9 was not directed at you, but considering your fanboy upvote of post 10, I can only assume you read post 9 as well.

So it's symbolic. Symbolic of what? What do thousands of distinctly white male rulers symbolize?

As has been explained already.....they symbolize the entire body of 144,000 people from the earth that will rule with Christ in heaven.

.