The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[Checkpoint]

I am not surprised you shy away from expaining who is in the kingdom and what it does. This is regretable since the kingdom was the main theme of Jesus preaching work.

Just what I said, you are so predictable and can always be relied on to tell us "certain truths" that do not reflect what scripture conveys.

And are you attempting to imply that the KINGDOM was not the main theme of Jesus' preaching work?

No, not at all, don't worry.

Mark 1:

14 After the arrest of John, Jesus went into Galilee and proclaimed the gospel of God 15 The time is fulfilled, he said, and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Matthew 10:

7 And proclaim as you go, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.

Luke 10:

1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.
2 And he said to them, The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.

8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you.
9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, The kingdom of God has come near to you.
10 But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say,
11 Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.

17The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!
18 And he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

Very good! So why say that JWs teach falsehoods?

Because they do! For example, 1914.

Why did you rate my post as "Very good!"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 151 by JehovahsWitness]

Checkpoint wrote:

That has to fit into what some folk insist are certain truths as to how it governs, where it governs from, who does the governing, and when that governing started.

You commented

I am not surprised you shy away from expaining who is in the kingdom and what it does. This is regretable since the kingdom was the main theme of Jesus preaching work.

Just what I said, you are so predictable and can always be relied on to tell us "certain truths" that do not reflect what scripture conveys.

You added

Don't worry, Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to preach the kingdom while you can concentrate on speaking about your own salvation, or Christian rock music or whatever other subject "churchless christians" like to wax lyrical about.

Yes, you will do what you do best, "wax lyrical about" whatever toes your party line with its mixture of truth, half truth, and falsehood.

Wow! This isn't like your usual self, Checkpoint. You have agreed with quite a bit that JWs wax lyrical about. What is so hard to accept about what JW and I are trying to explain about the Kingdom?

I do reject much of what you say about the kingdom.

That is because, to me, it is full of assumptions, misunderstandings, and claims that do not match what the New Testament conveys about the kingdom, whether present or future.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 126 by onewithhim]

2) If it [the kingdom of God] has always been here, why is the world still suffering?

Because God wanted a people who worshiped and loved Him because He had captured their hearts and were not robots.

Therefore He gave to man freedom to choose to do so or not do so.

That is exactly right, checkpoint. That is what we have been saying all along.

However, you are dodging the question. God's Kingdom is said in the Bible to cause God's will to be done on Earth as it is in heaven. It will cause suffering and death to cease. If the Kingdom has been functioning to its fullest all along, why is there still suffering and death? (Matthew 6:9,10; Revelation 21:4)

No, onewithim, that was not dodging the question; rather, you are dodging the answer to your own question about God's will, which the answer I gave also applies to.

That answer, which you agreed with, talked about what is known as "God's permissive will", the negative result of which has to include suffering.

God also has His ultimate will, His eternal purpose realised, and you have assumed that is all that Jesus meant in his model prayer, the result of which ends suffering.

I now quote two passages that illustrate God's permissive will in this age of the throne of grace.

Acts 17:

30 Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent.
31 For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed.


2 Peter 3:

8 But beloved, do not let this one thing be hidden from you, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

When anyone repents, God's permissive will is done on earth in response to His command and to prayer, thus bringing that little bit closer His ultimate will.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 175 by Checkpoint]

"Be cause it was no longer "the seat God's rulership" and so was treated as you described.
Paul explains the change well in Galatians 4:21-31.
The kingdom is of the Jerusalem above, of the Spirit, not of the Jerusalem below, of the flesh."


Checkpoint, you said something important and offered the scripture but did not quote it. I will because it clearly explains what we are talking about.

v 26 clearly points to the New Jerusalem as written in Revelation.

Gal.4:21-31
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

[tam]

"Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth....

Do the anointed not hope in God?

The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:9,29)

Are the anointed not righteous?

Your questions imply that the statements are exhaustive but they are not, thus there is not need to suggest its one or the other (a false dichotomy).

No I am questioning that those verses from Psalms are evidence for the following claim:

Not all Christians are going to heaven. Most of us will be here on Earth forever. - owh

The verses simply state that the righteous and those who hope in God will inherit the earth. One cannot use those verses to exclude any of the righteous or any of those who hope in God from that promise of inheriting the earth.


(Wouldn't suggesting that the anointed only go to heaven, but cannot also inherit the earth would be the false dichotomy?)

Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Question for all:

Would not the Kingdom be wherever the King is?


So that if He is in us, and we are in Him, then the Kingdom is also within us? So that when He returns (the second coming that has yet to occur), His Kingdom also comes with Him?





Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

Are you saying that the kingdom was "set up" during the reign of the Roman cesars?

Yes.

But you earlier said the kingdom started when "When God's actions and choices started." Are you suggesting that God had no "actions or choices" before the Roman era?

Not at all.

I also said this:

I am saying what the verse says, and equating that time as during the Roman Empire.

The kingdom "set up" was of a different nature to what had been before.

So we can define God's kingdom (that we pray to come) as "God's actions and choices" is that correct?

If so, when did it start ruling?

When God's actions and choices started.

[/quote]

[myth-one.com]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

The Bible states that believers will enter or become members of the Kingdom of God within the Kingdom of Heaven:

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

The Kingdom of Heaven applies to the "geographical" location, whereas the Kingdom of God applies to the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Heaven.

We are told where the Kingdom of God is located, and it is not a geographical location:

The Kingdom of God cometh not with observance: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)

God the Father rules over members of the Kingdom of God residing within the Kingdom of Heaven, from Heaven.

It is natural to assume that Heaven would be included within the Kingdom of Heaven, but they are not the same. The entire kingdom is much larger than its center or base of activity which is Heaven itself.

The earth is basically a colony which has rebelled under Satan and some of his angels and broken away from the kingdom. However, the kingdoms of this world (the earth) will once again become the kingdoms of our Lord and Christ:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

The earth will once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

So the Kingdom of God consists of spiritual bodied heavenly beings which reside within the Kingdom of Heaven.

It has existed from the beginning and will exist forever.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 206 by Checkpoint]

Are you saying there are two kingdoms? Can you explain what you mean by "the kingdom that was set up was of a different nature"?

What is "the nature" of the kingdom that was set up during the Roman Era?

What is the nature of the kingdom that was set up during at the beginning of time (when God first acted)?

What is the difference between the two above (apart from one is older)?









What is God's Kingdom? God's kingdom is a [type of] governement; it has a king at its head.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 207 by myth-one.com]

The Kingdom of Heaven applies to the "geographical" location, whereas the Kingdom of God applies to the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Not so.

They are different names for the same one kingdom.

Matthew uses the name "kingdom of heaven" only, whereas all other writers use the name "kingdom of God".