Would you sacrifice your own son like Abraham was ready to

[Jagella]

I was studying Hebrews 11 today which praises people of faith. Verses 17-19 of that chapter lauds Abraham's obedience to God as Abraham was ready to murder his own son Isaac. (The original grotesque tale appears in Genesis 22.)

Would you murder your own son if God asked you to?

Yes--Well, this answer speaks for itself.

No--Then you admit that your religion is immoral.

I think I have faith of my own that none of the Christians here will give a straight, honest answer to this question. You will stonewall and do everything you can to divert attention away from this issue. You know that your religion is immoral but will never admit it.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Re: Would you sacrifice your own son like Abraham was ready to


Yes, absolutely. .

In the same circumstances as Abraham, I hope my faith would be as strong as his.

JW

Thanks for the answer.

You're most welcome, any time.

So for you. faith is to go so far as to kill your own son ....

No, that wouldn't be my definition of faith; I've never gone that fat but I still believe I have faith.

So for you faith is [...] believing in the god that the Watch Tower has taught you.

No, faith for me is believing in the God I learnt of from the bible; I knew about this God long before I'd ever heard of a Watchtower.

[Tcg]

Would you murder your own son if God asked you to?

First off I'd be shocked that God, well... actually did something. As soon as a gathered my senses, I'd grab my son and run explaining to him that the bizarre stories we've heard of this murderous monster might be true. "Run, hide!"

[JehovahsWitness]

Christianity leads to child abuse, and it's time we put a stop to it.

Well you're entitled to your belief and IF Christianity did lead to child abuse (ie Christianity turns decent law abiding citizens turn into child abusers) I would tend to agree with you that such a phenomenon should stop . However you might have a hard time establishing a causal link on that one.

Anyway, are you suggesting this is the case for all Christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) ? If Christianity makes people become child abusers, are you suggesting it's just a matter of time before I ( being both a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witnesses) become one? Or are you accusing me of already being one? Or are you perhaps suggesting I am aware of criminal activity against a minor and have not reported it to the Police?

I can't quite make out what you're trying to tell me, clarification would be much appreciated.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[William]

[Replying to post 43 by JehovahsWitness]

Anyhoo, are you suggesting this is the case for all Christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) ? If Christianity makes people become child abusers, are you suggesting it's just a matter of time before I ( being both a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witnesses) become one? Or are you accusing me of already being one?

Why not just lay a complaint and let the mods decide?

After-all, the underlying accusation is that ALL biblical followers are mentally unstable, just on the fact that they rejoice in the alleged actions of atrocity committed directly by their god, or indirectly by those they believe are great men of that god.

[rikuoamero]

Christianity leads to child abuse, and it's time we put a stop to it.

Well you're entitled to your belief and IF Christianity did lead to child abuse (ie Christianity turns decent law abiding citizens turn into child abusers) I would tend to agree with you that such a phenomenon should stop . However you might have a hard time establishing a causal link on that one.

Anyway, are you suggesting this is the case for all Christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) ? If Christianity makes people become child abusers, are you suggesting it's just a matter of time before I ( being both a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witnesses) become one? Or are you accusing me of already being one? Or are you perhaps suggesting I am aware of criminal activity against a minor and have not reported it to the Police?

I can't quite make out what you're trying to tell me, clarification would be much appreciated.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

For what it's worth, I disagree with jagella, at least if he means there is a 1:1 causal relationship between being a Christian and committing child abuse. However JW...how many self styled Christians, including yourself I might add, on this thread expressed admiration for Abraham or even worse expressed a desire to emulate him?

[Elijah John]

Human sacrifice is sin. God does not tempt anyone to sin. Therefore, no matter what the "Bible says", it could not have been God giving Abraham the notion that it would be a good idea to slaughter Isaac in order to please God.

It had to have been Abraham's own, misguided idea. Or that of the author of Genesis. Maybe the author was only seeking to glorify Abraham for his "great faith", therefore gloryfiying by extension the descendants of Abraham.

But perhaps there is a deeper lesson in the passage, that God was teaching Abraham that human sacrifice is wrong. That human sacrifice is not, (nor was it ever), the proper way to worship YHVH El Elyon.

[William]

[Replying to post 45 by rikuoamero]

For what it's worth, I disagree with jagella, at least if he means there is a 1:1 causal relationship between being a Christian and committing child abuse. However JW...how many self styled Christians, including yourself I might add, on this thread expressed admiration for Abraham or even worse expressed a desire to emulate him?

Precisely! This was the thrust of my argument in post #16 which in context was not a personal attack on any particular member of the forum but a legitimate concern which in all honesty actually requires answering.

In context 'Love' is conflated with 'fear' and within the conflation, admiration and a willingness to emulate the same type of behavior one praises.

[Tcg]

But perhaps there is a deeper lesson in the passage, that God was teaching Abraham that human sacrifice is wrong.

Commanding him to kill his son as a human sacrifice is a rather odd way to teach that human sacrifice is wrong. You'd think a god could come up with a better method. I'm just some dude and I could do a better job.

That human sacrifice is not, (nor was it ever), the proper way to worship YHVH El Elyon.

Then YHVH El Elyon should have just performed one of his little magic tricks and then stated this to a very impressed Abe. Traumatizing his son to make this point seems rather ungodly. Maybe YHVH El Elyon was still in his "on the job training" phase.

[ttruscott]

Yep, other religions don't throw mud on you, so they can call you dirty, and propose to clean you up.

Gee, no wonder you are bitter...But Christianity does not do this either!!!

We contend that people jump in the mud themselves and while some take the helping hand out, others do not.

[William]

[Replying to post 48 by Tcg]

You'd think a god could come up with a better method. I'm just some dude and I could do a better job.

I, for one, am all ears and would love to hear how you would accomplice such a feat!