The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 558 by marco]

The biblical God deplored man to man relationships

To what exactly are you referring to?

[marco]

To what exactly are you referring to?

Some instruction such as:

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." Leviticus 20: 13

There is an argument that when Jesus came and hoped God's Kingdom would come, he intended such barbarities to be absent. That may be, but God's suggestion is still honoured in places today.

[Checkpoint]

To what exactly are you referring to?

Some instruction such as:

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." Leviticus 20: 13

There is an argument that when Jesus came and hoped God's Kingdom would come, he intended such barbarities to be absent. That may be, but God's suggestion is still honoured in places today.

God was not referring to "man to man relationships", but to outward acts that were part of pagan worship of other gods.

The "man to man relationship" of David and Jonathan was not deplored as it was connected with their worship of God.

Whether your phrase "such barbarities" describes the instruction or the acts in their context, is a matter for each person to assess and make a judgment.

[brianbbs67]

To what exactly are you referring to?

Some instruction such as:

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." Leviticus 20: 13

There is an argument that when Jesus came and hoped God's Kingdom would come, he intended such barbarities to be absent. That may be, but God's suggestion is still honoured in places today.

God was not referring to "man to man relationships", but to outward acts that were part of pagan worship of other gods.

The "man to man relationship" of David and Jonathan was not deplored as it was connected with their worship of God.

Whether your phrase "such barbarities" describes the instruction or the acts in their context, is a matter for each person to assess and make a judgment.

How does that verse not refer to male homosexual behavior ? Unless I mis understand?

[Checkpoint]

To what exactly are you referring to?

Some instruction such as:

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." Leviticus 20: 13

There is an argument that when Jesus came and hoped God's Kingdom would come, he intended such barbarities to be absent. That may be, but God's suggestion is still honoured in places today.

God was not referring to "man to man relationships", but to outward acts that were part of pagan worship of other gods.

The "man to man relationship" of David and Jonathan was not deplored as it was connected with their worship of God.

Whether your phrase "such barbarities" describes the instruction or the acts in their context, is a matter for each person to assess and make a judgment.

How does that verse not refer to male homosexual behavior ? Unless I mis understand?

Here is one possible alternative explanation:

http://wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/bibli ... ticus.html

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 563 by Checkpoint]

I think that is twisting it a bit. Ignore the words, but accept the interpetation.

[marco]

God was not referring to "man to man relationships", but to outward acts that were part of pagan worship of other gods.

Yes I've read the nonsensical explanation, laced with "Historians tell us," a favourite phrase of mediocre students. Historians don't tell us but Talmudic literature might. Ancient Egypt through its centuries of existence was highly civilised; there are three debated references to what might be male love or male rape by a god. Compare this with the many references in Greek culture. The "explanation" is more an embarrassment than an explanation of the text. One might as well say the words of Leviticus refer to hippopotami.

As for David and Jonathan, their love was palpably homosexual and nothing to do with anything divine. In their last meeting they kissed and David "exceeded", which can mean he "passed fluid", and this gives a perfectly understandable explanation rather than the fatuous "and David wept more" or "David's joy exceeded Jonathan's."


In any event Leviticus, as was understood for centuries, issued a death sentence on homosexuals. Silly exegesis does not alter this.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 565 by marco]

That's certainly one interpretation, however I can't see that that has anything to do with the theme of the thread which is the Kingdom of God.

Getting back to the OP I think that the kingdom of God is a government.


DOES GOD'S KINGDOM REALLY MEET THE CRITERIA OF A GOVERNMENT?

A government is the system to govern a state or community. God's kindom has a definite structure and system designed to govern. Most States have a President, or a King (or Queen) that acts as the Commander in Chief or the head of any ruling administration. The United States, for example has Donald Trump, the kingdom Government has as "President" JESUS CHRIST




Government normally consists of legislators, administrators, and arbitrators. Few if any rulers or Presidents or Kings exercise their authority alone. Even absolute Monarchs have subordinates that exercise authority over the various aspects of government.

Taking the British Government for example, their are 750 members of the House of Lords + 650 Members of Parliament (of those 21 special members are chosen to head the various departments (Cabinet). So effectively the British government is made up of 1400 individuals with a central team of 21.

JW



RELATED POSTS

Are we to understand the Kingdom to be a LITERAL government that will rule over this literal planet earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 630#865630

What will those ruling in this government (The Kingdom) actually DO in the future?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 622#878622[/quote]

[marco]

Getting back to the OP I think that the kingdom of God is a government.

I was clarifying a side issue lest what was said be regarded as incontrovertible fact.
So back to the "kingdom of God."

DOES GOD'S KINGDOM REALLY MEET THE CRITERIA OF A GOVERNMENT?

A government is the system to govern a state or community. God's kindom has a definite structure and system designed to govern. Most States have a President, or a King (or Queen) that acts as the Commander in Chief or the head of any ruling administration. The United States, for example has Donald Trump, the kingdom Government has as "President" JESUS CHRIST

Though this is not of course a reductio ad absurdum, it does reduce religious concepts to absurdity and invites levity. God is beyond ideas of kingship and presidential addresses. The God so reduced would invite scorn so it is better to leave God with his dignity and content ourselves with the Biblical statement:
1 Corinthians 2:

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Corinthians 2

We can only guess and dream!

[Checkpoint]

Getting back to the OP I think that the kingdom of God is a government.

I was clarifying a side issue lest what was said be regarded as incontrovertible fact.
So back to the "kingdom of God."

DOES GOD'S KINGDOM REALLY MEET THE CRITERIA OF A GOVERNMENT?

A government is the system to govern a state or community. God's kindom has a definite structure and system designed to govern. Most States have a President, or a King (or Queen) that acts as the Commander in Chief or the head of any ruling administration. The United States, for example has Donald Trump, the kingdom Government has as "President" JESUS CHRIST

Though this is not of course a reductio ad absurdum, it does reduce religious concepts to absurdity and invites levity. God is beyond ideas of kingship and presidential addresses. The God so reduced would invite scorn so it is better to leave God with his dignity and content ourselves with the Biblical statement:
1 Corinthians 2:

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Corinthians 2

We can only guess and dream!

What do you guess and dream, concerning such things?