This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[MosesY]

The end times began when Jesus ascended to heaven. Most of what Jesus talks about began during his disciple's generation. Name a sign of the end times in that passage that didn't happen during the disciple's time. Christians are persecuted today and killed for their belief. All of these thing will gradually get worse until no Christians are left but God will return before then.

[peacedove]

The end times began when Jesus ascended to heaven. Most of what Jesus talks about began during his disciple's generation. Name a sign of the end times in that passage that didn't happen during the disciple's time. Christians are persecuted today and killed for their belief. All of these thing will gradually get worse until no Christians are left but God will return before then.

So, the end time began when Christ ascended? God sent his Son into the world at the fullness of time (Gal. 4:4). This is equivalent to the last days or end times. John the Baptist was the last days prophet, Elijah and the voice, who was preparing the way for and warning of the great and terrible day of the Lord. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit was a sign that the last days were present in Jerusalem at Pentecost, again, warning of the great and terrible day of the Lord. That great and terrible day of the Lord would be the time that the Pharisees and the Sadducees would be uprooted and thrown into the fire. John the Baptist said that day was near, to that brood of vipers who came to see him in the wilderness. Peter warned that the judgement would fall upon his generation (Acts. 2:40).

The Lord also warned about the judgement at the end of the age when the weeds would be uprooted. Who were these weeds? The same Pharisees and Chief Priests who would be judged and crushed by the falling of the stone upon them (Mat. 21:33-45)

The Lord said he would come on the clouds in judgement in that generation at the fall of the Jerusalem temple.

Why speak of things now getting worse and the coming of God in our future to end the last days? The last days, on your own understanding was in the First Century. Why not be consistent and declare those days fulfilled as and when the Lord said it would be? Did the judgement he spoke of fail to take place? Surely it happened.

[JehovahsWitness]

Name a sign of the end times in that passage that didn't happen during the disciple's time.

MATTHEW 24: 30-31

Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

JW



RELATED POSTS

What are "the last days"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 124#891124

Is it possible to pinpoint exactly when this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 423#891423

What is the "generation" Jesus referred to?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 219#752219

FURTHER READING:

Are We Living in the Last Days?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

1914"A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/

[Elijah John]

MATTHEW 24: 30-31

Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

You mean, like this?

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

(Matthew 16-27-28)

The disciples have long since passed away, still no "Son of Man coming in his Father's glory with his angels...{to} reward each person according to what they have done".

Jesus, or Matthew appear to have been very wrong. Didn't happen then, or even in 1914. Still hasn't happened.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus, or Matthew appear to have been very wrong. Didn't happen then, or even in 1914. Still hasn't happened.

In your opinion... I take it your interpretation of scripture is an opinion? (Please correct me if you are not stating an opinion). If so I happen to disagree with uour interpretation of bible prophecy. Is that alright?

Please let me know if disagreeing with you violates forum policy.

JW

ps: You might like to re-read what I said happened in 1914 as it appears you have confused the yet future return of Christ with his "presence" (pasrousia), feel free to ask what that means if after reading my previous posts on the subjects you require further clarification.

RELATED POSTS

What is "the return of Christ"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 406#965406

Did Jesus indicate that his first century disciples would see him returned in Kingdom power? (Mark 9:1; Matthew 16: 27, 28; Luke 9: 27)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 172#752172

Go to other posts related to...


THE LAST DAYS , THE RETURN OF CHRIST, and ...THE BOOK OF REVELATION

[Elijah John]

Jesus, or Matthew appear to have been very wrong. Didn't happen then, or even in 1914. Still hasn't happened.

In your opinion... I take it your interpretation of scripture is an opinion? (Please correct me if you are not stating an opinion). If so I happen to disagree with uour interpretation of bible prophecy. Is that alright?

Not my opinion or interpretation, but plain reading, Jesus still hasn't returned with his Father's angels as the agent of the Last Judgement.

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Where is Jesus with his Father's glory and his angels doling out rewards and punishments "each person according to what they have done"? It was supposed to have happened before the "some standing here tasted death". They've all died, and that 2nd advent has yet to occur.

Of course it's "alright" to disagree as long as you support your disagreement with scriptural or contextual evidence or well reasoned argumentation.

In lieu of that, plain reading prevails.

[JehovahsWitness]

Not my opinion or interpretation, but plain reading,

I disagree, I dont think you are "just plain reading" at all. I think you are wrong if that's what you believe you are doing. It is your OPINION that you are just plain reading, I don't share your view on that. Is that alright? I hope it is...

Please let me know if I am not allowed to disagree with you on this point, I don't want to violate forum guidelines.

JW

[Elijah John]

Not my opinion or interpretation, but plain reading,

I disagree, I dont think you are "just plain reading" at all. I think you are wrong if that's what you believe you are doing. It is your OPINION that you are just plain reading, I don't share your view on that. Is that alright? I hope it is...

Please let me know if I am not allowed to disagree with you on this point, I don't want to violate forum guidelines.

JW

Is that all ta got? Not much if a comeback and adds nothing to the debate. You don't seem to have an answer as to why Jesus didn't return when he said he would, so you engage in uncivil sarcasm. That's not honorable debate.

Try this. Show us how Jesus actually did return in judgement, with his Father,s angels in the lifetime of his apostles as the text clearly says he would.

If you think I misread or misinterpreted the passage, please demonstrate what it really means and what it actually said.

[JehovahsWitness]

Not my opinion or interpretation, but plain reading...

If you claim you are just plain reading feel free to prove your claim. It is neither uncivil or sarcastic to disagree with a poster and I disagree with you: you are interpreting . If you would like to respond with evidence of your "plain reading claim" feel free to present it, otherwise there is nothing for me to come back at.

Of course it's "alright" to disagree as long as you support your disagreement with scriptural or contextual evidence or well reasoned argumentation.

After you!

YOU made the claim you were drawing conclusions without interpretation accordjng to the {quote} "plain meaning" of the words in the text. I await your explanation of those words devoid of interpretation, to prove your point. I take you know which words are in the text, what the context is and what those plain words meant in the language in which they were spoken.

I will await the presentation of your ideas to prove that your conclusions are devoid of interpretation before I respond fully to your "just plain meaning" claim. In the meantime I hope you will understand why I ignore your claim.

• - "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens

JW

[Elijah John]

You don't seem to have an answer as to why Jesus didn't return when he said he would...

I don't recall you asking me. If you claim you are just plain reading feel free to prove your claim. It is neither uncivil or sarcastic to disagree with a poster and I disagree with your claim. If you would like to respond with evidence of your "plain reading claim" feel free to present it, otherwise there is nothing for me to come back at.

• - "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens

JW

Plain reading does not call for proof. Exotic readings do, and you have not even offered your alternative. The burden is on you.

Shall we take a "did Jesus return in judgement with his Father's angels in the lifetime of his apostles as stated inMatthew 16.27-28?" poll here on this forum? Or on C+A.

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.