Anonymous biblical mythographers write of a physical, anthropomorphic Jehovah, who has number, gender, fingers, a face, a voice, a backside and possibly other physical features I can't remember.
Certain folks claim that the biblical version of "God" is some sort of abstract, unknowable, poetic, figurative, transcendent whatever. This only works if you pluck out the bits you like, and tuck the physicality of the mythological Jehovah away where hopefully no one remembers it.
But some of us DO remember:
Jehovah appeared to Abraham near the large trees of Mamre. Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent. It was the hottest time of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby.
The mythographers have Jehovah and two sidekicks appear in human form. The mythographers also have the possibly fictional Abraham character recognise the god - so gods fluttering down and visiting the floor of the Firmament was no surprise to him - and the physical apparitions consumed a beefburger and a grail of milk (in violation of a later law of "God").
Can we agree that CERTAIN of the mythographers imagined the Jehovah deity as a PHYSICAL god ?
Let's Get Physical
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Let's Get Physical
Post #11Are you suggesting Genesis 1:26 introduces the God of the bible as being of a plural nature ? If so, I do not agree with your reading. If we take the plain meaning of the word "us" it simply refers to the speaker and at least one other individual. In the biblically that other individual wojld be Gods spirit son, The Word (who is presented as later coiming to earth as the human Jesus).SallyF wrote:
...The Elohim are the "Us" in Genesis.
COLOSSIANS 1:15, 16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.
GENESIS 1:26
God said: Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness
PROVERBS 8:30, 31
I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men.
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Overcomer
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Post #12
SallyF wrote:
There are also christophanies, that is, non-physical appearances of Christ prior to his incarnation.
See here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/theophany- ... phany.html
The appearances of God in the Old Testament are theophanies. A theophany is a manifestation of God that is tangible to the human senses.Can we agree that CERTAIN of the mythographers imagined the Jehovah deity as a PHYSICAL god ?
There are also christophanies, that is, non-physical appearances of Christ prior to his incarnation.
See here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/theophany- ... phany.html
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Tcg
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Post #13
What are the mechanics of this process? How does a being who is totally undetectable to physical beings make himself known to physical beings?
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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Post #14
.
There is no assurance that such tales are anything more than imaginary or fictitious.
More accurately, appearances of God in the OT, are unverified TALES claiming experiences with God.Overcomer wrote: The appearances of God in the Old Testament are theophanies. A theophany is a manifestation of God that is tangible to the human senses.
There is no assurance that such tales are anything more than imaginary or fictitious.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Re: Let's Get Physical
Post #15[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]
The mythographers have Jehovah and two sidekicks appear in human form.
(I understand that you claim this meeting actually took place and is not just a fantasy story.)
We clearly have the mythological Jehovah deity and two sidekicks. The mythographers did NOT write of three messengers from of the mythological Jehovah.
Jehovah and his sidekicks were cheeseburger eating, milk drinking, voice talking physicalities.
Nonetheless, one of the purposes of this OP is to demonstrate that no matter HOW much one doesn't like the idea of a physical, man-sized Jehovah with a backside and other human bits, that is how the mythographers in certain parts of the "scriptures" portray him.
One may reasonably ask WHY certain believers don't like the idea of "God" as a superhuman.
Could it be, that just like we New Atheists, they then recognise the "God" of the biblical writings as nothing more than a fictitious fantasy figure, just like every other lowercase god ?
As an aside - the Israelites were Canaanites, and the Canaanites worshiped "God" as the Holy Multiplicity of the Elohim: just as many Christians today worship "God" as a Holy Trinity/Multiplicity.
Jehovah is very much a Jehovah-come-lately to the business of being a mythological Middle East god.
I see remnants of the Elohim culture in the much-doctored "scriptures" we have today.
The mythographers have Jehovah and two sidekicks appear in human form.
(I understand that you claim this meeting actually took place and is not just a fantasy story.)
We clearly have the mythological Jehovah deity and two sidekicks. The mythographers did NOT write of three messengers from of the mythological Jehovah.
Jehovah and his sidekicks were cheeseburger eating, milk drinking, voice talking physicalities.
Nonetheless, one of the purposes of this OP is to demonstrate that no matter HOW much one doesn't like the idea of a physical, man-sized Jehovah with a backside and other human bits, that is how the mythographers in certain parts of the "scriptures" portray him.
One may reasonably ask WHY certain believers don't like the idea of "God" as a superhuman.
Could it be, that just like we New Atheists, they then recognise the "God" of the biblical writings as nothing more than a fictitious fantasy figure, just like every other lowercase god ?
As an aside - the Israelites were Canaanites, and the Canaanites worshiped "God" as the Holy Multiplicity of the Elohim: just as many Christians today worship "God" as a Holy Trinity/Multiplicity.
Jehovah is very much a Jehovah-come-lately to the business of being a mythological Middle East god.
I see remnants of the Elohim culture in the much-doctored "scriptures" we have today.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Let's Get Physical
Post #16SallyF wrote: [Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]
(I understand that you claim this meeting actually took place and is not just a fantasy story.)
Yes. Do you also understand what a metaphor is?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Tcg
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Re: Let's Get Physical
Post #17JehovahsWitness wrote:
Yes. Do you also understand what a metaphor is?
Sure. It's what Christians claim a passage is when there is no other way to resolve a problem certain Biblical texts create.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
