When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?
If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.
We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.
Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29
Paradise on Earth
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Post #1491
JW's claimed to know the significance of that date decades BEFORE:JehovahsWitness wrote:
When prophecies are fulfilled, with hindsight its possible to know the date of fulfillment.
JW
- 1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bib ... -prophecy/
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Post #1492
[Replying to post 1488 by Tcg]
RESPONSE: That is correct. Although JWs have not always fully understood what that year would mean for them, they remain fully convinced it was the year Christ took up kingship in heaven. And with hindsight due to the subsequent events we are confident that our understanding that 1914 was a significant year, was, and remains, correct (see below).
1914 A SIGNIFICANT YEAR IN BIBLE CHRONOLOGY
FURTHER READING:
WHAT HAPPENED IN 1914
1914 AND JEHOVAHS WITNESSES
RESPONSE: That is correct. Although JWs have not always fully understood what that year would mean for them, they remain fully convinced it was the year Christ took up kingship in heaven. And with hindsight due to the subsequent events we are confident that our understanding that 1914 was a significant year, was, and remains, correct (see below).
1914 A SIGNIFICANT YEAR IN BIBLE CHRONOLOGY
FURTHER READING:
Are We Living in “the Last Days�?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/
1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bib ... -prophecy/
WHAT HAPPENED IN 1914
When did the last days begin?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 897#978897
Did Jesus not warn nobody would know THE DAY OR THE HOUR the world system would end?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 33#1010233
Is it possible to pinpoint the exact DATE this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 423#891423
If God's kingdom has been in power since 1914 why have there been no significant changes on earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 772#883772
Did Jesus do nothing prior to 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 622#883622
How could Jesus be appointed king in 1914 if he was given "all authority" in 33 CE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 355#829355
1914 AND JEHOVAHS WITNESSES
How many years in advance were Jehovahs Witnesess pointing to 1914 as a significant year in world events?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 159#891159
Did Jehovahs Witnesses teach about an INVISIBLE parousia only after Christ failed to return visibly in 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 141#891141
Why do JWs not abandon "the 1914" teachjng as a failed prophecy?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 996#864996
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , FAILED PREDICTIONS, and... 1914
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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onewithhim
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Post #1493
I showed that 1914 IS a Biblical date, scrutinizing the prophecy in Daniel chapter 2. I think I even spelled it out recently in one of these threads. I'm sure JehovahsWitness has included many links to explain how we know that 1914 was prophesied in the Scriptures. I have a feeling that people don't bother to go to those links.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 1485 by onewithhim]
1914 is a historical date, not a biblical prophecy date, which Jesus said is not for us to know.Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2.
You know that, but use it anyway.
Jesus never said that we should not know the truth about Biblical prophesies. He never said that God didn't intend for people to know when the Messiah would come (Daniel chapter 9) or when he would start his rule (chapter 2). Jesus said that we are not to know the day or the hour that he would come to eliminate the wicked at Armageddon. That's all that we can't know, though we CAN know the season.
So your short-sighted negative aspersions toward Jehovah's Witnesses is counter-productive. More research is called for. When you don't know all of the information, it is wise not to set forth precarious opinions.
.
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tam
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Post #1494
Peace to you all,
Daniel chapter 2 speaks only of the Kingdom that God would later set up that will never be destroyed. Daniel 2 does not speak of 1914.
**
As for Revelation 20 (and this is just a quick summary):
Rev 20: 1-3 - Satan is abyssed; locked and sealed in the abyss, unable to deceive the nations - on any matter - for the thousand years. He is not free and roaming about on the earth (he was long since cast out of heaven; he is now also locked and sealed in the abyss).
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
Rev 20:4-6 - The first resurrection. This resurrection is for those who are in Christ (Christians). They will reign with Christ in His Kingdom for a thousand years as kings and priests (those who have died as well as those who are still alive when Christ returns - see 1Corinth 15:51-53; 1Thess 4:16, 17.)
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:7-10 - At the end of the thousand years, Satan is loosed from the abyss and deceives the nations to gather them for battle. They ride across the breadth of the earth and threaten the camp and city God loves, but fire comes down from heaven and devours them instead.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11-15 - The resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). Everyone who had previously died (except those who had a part in the first resurrection) are now resurrected. Some are resurrected to LIFE (and receive eternal life, having had their names recorded in the book of life) - and some are resurrected to judgment and the second (eternal) death, all according to their deeds as recorded in the books.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2. That foretold when Jehovah's King would begin his rule.
Daniel chapter 2 speaks only of the Kingdom that God would later set up that will never be destroyed. Daniel 2 does not speak of 1914.
**
As for Revelation 20 (and this is just a quick summary):
Rev 20: 1-3 - Satan is abyssed; locked and sealed in the abyss, unable to deceive the nations - on any matter - for the thousand years. He is not free and roaming about on the earth (he was long since cast out of heaven; he is now also locked and sealed in the abyss).
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
Rev 20:4-6 - The first resurrection. This resurrection is for those who are in Christ (Christians). They will reign with Christ in His Kingdom for a thousand years as kings and priests (those who have died as well as those who are still alive when Christ returns - see 1Corinth 15:51-53; 1Thess 4:16, 17.)
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:7-10 - At the end of the thousand years, Satan is loosed from the abyss and deceives the nations to gather them for battle. They ride across the breadth of the earth and threaten the camp and city God loves, but fire comes down from heaven and devours them instead.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11-15 - The resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). Everyone who had previously died (except those who had a part in the first resurrection) are now resurrected. Some are resurrected to LIFE (and receive eternal life, having had their names recorded in the book of life) - and some are resurrected to judgment and the second (eternal) death, all according to their deeds as recorded in the books.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
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onewithhim
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Post #1495
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1488 by Tcg]
1914 A SIGNIFICANT YEAR IN BIBLE CHRONOLOGY
FURTHER READING:
This information is vital. Jesus wants everyone to know that he is reigning and is soon to come back to set things straight. To ignore him is to forfeit our very lives. He and Jehovah don't want anyone to forfeit their lives. The links above provide important information so that we can understand why we know that 1914 is a significant year. Does anyone here want to comment on those links?Are We Living in “the Last Days�?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/
1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bib ... -prophecy/
.
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tam
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Post #1497
May you all have peace!
[Replying to post 1491 by onewithhim]
Among other obscure things, the information contained in the link seems to depend upon an interpretation of what it means to "trample upon Jerusalem" (the article references Luke 21 for context) as well as when that trampling began. For some reason the WTS links this event to the Babylonian conquest of Judah (centuries earlier)... even though the context from Luke is referencing something that was YET to happen:
“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
The context shows this to be referring to something that had YET to happen. The WTS article links it to something that had happened centuries earlier. And if the starting point is wrong, then any date based on that will be wrong as well. But even if this interpretation was correct (I do not see how it is), the rest of the information is also all interpretation. This kind of manipulation of scriptures and numbers is how all sorts of people and denominations give "prophecy" dates for the end the world, or for the return of Christ, etc, etc.
It can seem really convincing (or else no one would ever be misled). But the WTS also made predictions about what would happen in 1914 that were proven to be incorrect. If they were wrong about the things that can be proven wrong, why trust that they were correct about the things that supposedly happened invisibly?
**
More than all that though (and certainly something much more simple) is the fact that Christ did not become King only in 1914. Christ was King back when He said all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to Him. He came into His Kingdom then; sat on a throne as King then. He just had not established His Kingdom upon the earth at that time (as He said, His Kingdom was from another place)... and nothing changed in this regard in 1914.
The sheep and the goats were not gathered before Him to be separated; no one was caught up to meet Him in the sky and then changed "in a twinkling"; and the kingdoms of the earth have continued as usual.
Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
[Replying to post 1491 by onewithhim]
Among other obscure things, the information contained in the link seems to depend upon an interpretation of what it means to "trample upon Jerusalem" (the article references Luke 21 for context) as well as when that trampling began. For some reason the WTS links this event to the Babylonian conquest of Judah (centuries earlier)... even though the context from Luke is referencing something that was YET to happen:
“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
The context shows this to be referring to something that had YET to happen. The WTS article links it to something that had happened centuries earlier. And if the starting point is wrong, then any date based on that will be wrong as well. But even if this interpretation was correct (I do not see how it is), the rest of the information is also all interpretation. This kind of manipulation of scriptures and numbers is how all sorts of people and denominations give "prophecy" dates for the end the world, or for the return of Christ, etc, etc.
It can seem really convincing (or else no one would ever be misled). But the WTS also made predictions about what would happen in 1914 that were proven to be incorrect. If they were wrong about the things that can be proven wrong, why trust that they were correct about the things that supposedly happened invisibly?
**
More than all that though (and certainly something much more simple) is the fact that Christ did not become King only in 1914. Christ was King back when He said all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to Him. He came into His Kingdom then; sat on a throne as King then. He just had not established His Kingdom upon the earth at that time (as He said, His Kingdom was from another place)... and nothing changed in this regard in 1914.
The sheep and the goats were not gathered before Him to be separated; no one was caught up to meet Him in the sky and then changed "in a twinkling"; and the kingdoms of the earth have continued as usual.
Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Checkpoint
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Post #1498
onewithhim wrote:I showed that 1914 IS a Biblical date, scrutinizing the prophecy in Daniel chapter 2. I think I even spelled it out recently in one of these threads.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 1485 by onewithhim]
1914 is a historical date, not a biblical prophecy date, which Jesus said is not for us to know.Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2.
You know that, but use it anyway.
There is no date, let alone 1914, anywhere in Daniel 2.
As I said, anyone who claims such a date has already lost any real credibility.I'm sure JehovahsWitness has included many links to explain how we know that 1914 was prophesied in the Scriptures. I have a feeling that people don't bother to go to those links.
His expression, "the day or the hour" is not literal, but another way of saying what he also said, "the times and the seasons"... (as translated from the Greek, the"chronos" and the "kairos"). About which:Jesus never said that we should not know the truth about Biblical prophesies. He never said that God didn't intend for people to know when the Messiah would come (Daniel chapter 9) or when he would start his rule (chapter 2). Jesus said that we are not to know the day or the hour that he would come to eliminate the wicked at Armageddon. That's all that we can't know, though we CAN know the season.
Jesus made it abundantly clear that we cannot know either the specific date or even the season, in Acts 1:HELPS Word-studies:
5550 xrónos – time (in general), especially viewed in sequence (a "succession of moments"); time in duration in the physical-space world, sovereignly apportioned by God to each person.
5550 /xrónos - ("time in sequence, duration") especially expresses time quantitatively – in contrast to 2450 /IoudaÃzÅ� ("opportune time") which portrays time qualitatively ("time as opportunity").
2540 kairós – season - time as opportunity. 2540 /kairós ("opportune time") is derived from kara ("head") referring to things "coming to a head" to take full-advantage of. 2540 (kairós) is "the suitable time, the right moment (e.g. Soph., El. 1292), a favorable moment" (DNTT, 3, 833).
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?�
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
The wisest thing to do is to learn from one's own mistakes, and from those of others who are obviously short-sighted and set forth precarious opinions.So your short-sighted negative aspersions toward Jehovah's Witnesses is counter-productive. More research is called for. When you don't know all of the information, it is wise not to set forth precarious opinions.
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #1499
onewithhim wrote:
1914 A SIGNIFICANT YEAR IN BIBLE CHRONOLOGY
FURTHER READING:
This information is vital. Jesus wants everyone to know that he is reigning and is soon to come back to set things straight. To ignore him is to forfeit our very lives. He and Jehovah don't want anyone to forfeit their lives. The links above provide important information so that we can understand why we know that 1914 is a significant year. Does anyone here want to comment on those links?Are We Living in “the Last Days�?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/
1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bib ... -prophecy/
.
Jesus asked us to announce the KINGDOM he didn't say force people to listen. We won't always be here and the message wont always be an invitation, but as long as there is time we must draw peoples attention to the time we are living in.
It both responsibility and honour to work for the King!
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Checkpoint
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Post #1500
[Replying to post 1493 by JehovahsWitness]
What do you say "the time we are living in" actually is?
Why do you "draw peoples attention to" that?
How do JWs do that?as long as there is time we must draw peoples attention to the time we are living in.
What do you say "the time we are living in" actually is?
Why do you "draw peoples attention to" that?
