The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[Justin108]

What exactly do you mean by "in operation"?

operating
intransitive verb
1
: to perform a function : exert power or influence factors operating against our success
2
: to produce an appropriate effect the drug operated quickly

To function; to act.


JW

Ok what has the kingdom actively been doing since 1914 that it has not been doing prior to 1914?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

In my experience, few can actually define what God's kingdom is, most launch into a rather vague discourse about it being something about heaven and in ones heart. I will leave the thread to demonstrate how few people (especially nominal Christians) can actually say what God's kingdom is.

God's kingdom refers to his heavenly government which has been in operation since the year 1914 (compare Daniel 4:10-16; Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5 ; Revelation 12:6, 14).

How do these verses point to 1914? What exactly do you mean by "in operation"? What exactly did the kingdom start doing in 1914 that it did not do before then? Or did the kingdom not exist before then?

God said to the Messiah long before he began his rule, "Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet." (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:34,35) That part of Jesus' rule would be "in the midst of his enemies" was brought out in that same psalm, verse 2. That meant that for a time, Jesus would still have his enemies being active on the earth. What he would be doing at that particular time would be guiding his followers on the earth concerning the preaching work--witnessing to all the nations---that had to be done before the end of men's rule. (Matthew 24:14)

Did Jesus start doing this after 1914?

He has been guiding his followers for over a hundred years now, to give a thorough witness to all the world.

And Jesus did not do this prior to 1914? Did Jesus not guide his followers to give witness prior to 1914?

We can tell by the information in the 24th chapter of Matthew, plus Revelation and Daniel, that Jesus will take over rulership of the earth and destroy men's governments any time now. (See Daniel chapter 2. Research the "immense image.")

Yes... any minute now.

[JehovahsWitness]

The King is in place now (since 1914)

Where else was he before that time?

When I say "now in place" it is not a reference to Jesus literal location (Jesus has been in the" location" of heaven (the spirit realm) since 33 CE, when he returned to heavean after his death and resurrection, I meant "in place" as in a position to fulfil his specific purpose.

[JehovahsWitness]

You seem to be saying that Jesus has been sitting there all that time doing nothing other than waiting "until that date arrived" "for the government to go into operation".

HAS JESUS BEEN DOING NOTHING SINCE 1914?

No, Jesus never does "nothing" and I never used that word. As he himself said, "my father keeps on working" and so does he. Jesus has been very busy since his return to heaven and we shouldn't forget that he no doubt still has his authority as The Word or the chief spokesman of God, speaking and acting on Jehovah's behalf.



Further it is clear, from his (Jesus') return to heaven that he began guiding, directing and protecting the newly born congregation, indeed the Apostle Paul (himself evidence of direct actions on the part of Jesus from heaven - see chapter Acts 9) refers to "the kingdom of the Son of God's love" evidently a reference to the authority Jesus immediately began to expercise over those he loves in his congregation (the bride of Christ). Those are just two aspects of Jesus' busy life since the first century, but what he did NOT do is begin his specific functions as king of THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM*.


(as I said in [my first post], because people generally have no idea what the Messianic Kingdom of God is (or most think its just some vague reference to loving God in your heart), they cannot identify when it began or what it will do. The understanding that the kingdom is essentially simply "a feeling in your heart" renders pretty much everything anyone has to say about it from that position inaccurate


* God's (Messianic) Kingdom is a government (ie a rulership with a domain or territory to rule over) that is comprised of144,000 individuals headed by Jesus, who will rule over the territory of the entire planet earth.

Further reading: God's Kingdom A Government With No Corruption
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... orruption/

RELATED POSTS

What is God's Kingdom and what will it do? [video included]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p865402

Are we to understand the Kingdom to be a LITERAL government that will rule over this literal planet earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 30#p865630

What do Jesus' words "the kingdom is within you" mean?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p865934

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viewtopic.php?p=1021500#p1021500

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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 88#p835788

What will those ruling in this government (The Kingdom) actually DO in the future?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 22#p878622

[Checkpoint]

The King is in place now (since 1914)

Where else was he before that time?

When I say "now in place" it is not a reference to Jesus literal location (Jesus has been in the" location" of heaven (the spirit realm) since 33 CE, when he returned to heavean after his death and resurrection, I meant "in place" as in a position to fulfil his specific purpose.

Jesus has been "in a position to fulfil his specific purpose" since he began his ministry.

That ministry was just the beginning, but it established the foundation of all that would follow.

It was and is the good news of the kingdom of God, of his and our authority and of grace and kingdom living as sons of the kingdom.

The kingdom of God is present, is active, and is growing.

The kingdom of God is also future, when Jesus returns and fully exercises his kingly authority to put an end to man's rule and to sin and death and usher in the new heaven and earth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 15 by Checkpoint]

Thank you for sharing what YOU believe but I was under the impression the OP was asking what others believe in this regard. I have contributed what *I* believe and stand by everything I have written.

JW

[McCulloch]

God's (Messianic) Kingdom is a government (ie a rulership with a domain or territory to rule over) that is comprised of 144,000 individuals headed by Jesus, who will rule over the territory of the entire planet earth.

A government is a group that rules over a territory. A group that will rule sometime in the future is not a government. It might be called a government-in-waiting, but it isn't an effective government.

[JehovahsWitness]

God's (Messianic) Kingdom is a government (ie a rulership with a domain or territory to rule over) that is comprised of 144,000 individuals headed by Jesus, who will rule over the territory of the entire planet earth.

A government is a group that rules over a territory. A group that will rule sometime in the future is not a government. It might be called a government-in-waiting, but it isn't an effective government.

Yes, it was "in waiting" in a sense from 33 to 1914. As of that year, it has been a government in operation. The territory is the planet earth.


JW

[Justin108]

God's (Messianic) Kingdom is a government (ie a rulership with a domain or territory to rule over) that is comprised of 144,000 individuals headed by Jesus, who will rule over the territory of the entire planet earth.

A government is a group that rules over a territory. A group that will rule sometime in the future is not a government. It might be called a government-in-waiting, but it isn't an effective government.

Yes, it was "in waiting" in a sense from 33 to 1914. As of that year, it has been a government in operation. The territory is the planet earth.


JW

I see you missed my questions. I'll repeat them for you. What has the kingdom actively been doing since 1914 that it has not been doing prior to 1914? In what way exactly has the kingdom been "governing"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 15 by Checkpoint]

Thank you for sharing what YOU believe but I was under the impression the OP was asking what others believe in this regard. I have contributed what *I* believe and stand by everything I have written.

JW

The OP was intended to encourage contributions and discussion and debate from anyone.

That does not preclude me from writing in response or joining the debate in any capacity I choose.