Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by Wootah »

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1) So Saul was a top Jew and would never blaspheme against YHWH.

Historical Background: Saul (later Paul) was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, born a Roman citizen but raised in the Jewish tradition of Tarsus. He studied directly under Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel and one of the most revered rabbis in the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:3; cf. Acts 5:34-39). Gamaliel's school emphasized meticulous Torah observance, and Saul describes himself as "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers" (Galatians 1:14, emphasis added).
Zeal Against "Blasphemy": As a Pharisee, Saul's mission was to purge Israel of anything that could defile the covenant or dishonor YHWH. Blasphemy was the ultimate Jewish taboo—punishable by stoning (Leviticus 24:16; cf. the trial of Jesus in Mark 14:64). Saul hunted perceived blasphemers: "I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death... I went to foreign cities to imprison many... I cast my vote against them when they were put to death" (Acts 26:10-11; cf. Acts 8:1-3; 9:1-2). He saw himself as God's enforcer, breathing "threats and murder against the disciples" (Acts 9:1).
Key Implication: A man like Saul would never intentionally blaspheme YHWH. His actions were the opposite: hyper-vigilant defense of God's honor. If he thought he was serving God, he couldn't have been blaspheming—unless his target wasn't just a "false messiah" but God incarnate.

2) Paul's Post-Conversion Confession—"I Was Once a Blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13)
The Text in Context: In 1 Timothy 1:12-14, Paul thanks Christ for his mercy, then pivots to his past: "Even though I was once a blasphemer (blasphēmos) and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly..."This isn't casual regret; it's a radical re-evaluation. Paul isn't confessing generic sins—he's using loaded Jewish terminology. Blasphēmia in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) and rabbinic thought always targets God directly: cursing His name, attributing evil to Him, or rejecting His revelation (e.g., Numbers 15:30; 2 Kings 19:4).
Cross-reference Acts 9:4-5 (Saul's Damascus Road encounter): Jesus asks, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Saul's reply—"Who are you, Lord?"—reveals the divine identity. Jesus identifies as the one Saul is attacking.

3) The Twist: As Saul, he believed he was honoring YHWH by crushing the "Nazarene sect" (Acts 24:5). But now, he sees those actions as blasphemy against God. Why? Because the early church's message was that Jesus is YHWH's divine presence (e.g., Jesus' claims in John 8:58; 10:30). Persecuting Christians = persecuting the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), which Paul now equates with assaulting God Himself.

4)The Paradox Resolved: How could a Gamaliel-trained Pharisee blaspheme without knowing it? Only if his "zeal" was misdirected at the wrong target—God Himself in the person of Jesus. Paul isn't saying he slandered YHWH's name verbally; he's saying his violent opposition to Jesus was, in truth, reviling the divine Son. This mirrors Jesus' warning: "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" (Matthew 12:32). Paul's ignorance (v. 13) echoes this—his "unbelief" blinded him to Jesus' deity.

How could a devout, elite Pharisee like Saul—trained under Gamaliel, fiercely zealous for the honor of YHWH, and utterly committed to stamping out anything he saw as blasphemy against God—ever describe his own past actions as blasphemy (1 Timothy 1:13)?He wasn't casually sinning or attacking some random group. As Saul, he believed he was defending God's name by persecuting Christians—breathing threats and murder against them (Acts 9:1), approving their executions (Acts 26:10), and hunting them to foreign cities. A man of his background and training would never knowingly blaspheme YHWH; that was the very crime he was trying to eradicate!So how can Paul, looking back, honestly call himself a 'blasphemer' unless the one he was actually opposing—Jesus—was God Himself?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #21

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 3:15 pm [Replying to tam in post #19]

Apparently, @tam, you think that your reasoning can figure everything out.
Bruce, it is exactly the opposite.

I am not relying upon my own reasoning (or the reasoning of other men, religion.)

I am relying upon Christ.

I don't know anything; I need to listen to Him.

He is the Truth.

It's completely your right to think that, but I know at my age of 83, that I can't. I agree with the rule, "Go as far as the Bible goes; then, stop!"
Didn't God say (and so, doesn't even the bible record),

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."
Adam and Eve thought that they knew better how to live and reason than God did, and humanity has followed their pride ever since then.
I don't think I know better how to live and reason than God does. I know that I need to rely upon Christ and follow Him.
Take all of my passages, and you will get the mysterious truth that God is one God who reveals himself as three Persons, who all work together in perfect harmony as the Source of blessings given to us without our deserving them at all, another mystery of God's astounding grace.
Dear Bruce, I took all the passages that you shared and I do not get what you get (for reasons already stated.)

But I don't wish to argue with you about it. We can just disagree.

Peace again to you.
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #22

Post by OneJack »

[Replying to tam in post #21]
tam wrote:I don't know anything; I need to listen to Him.
Good day, Tammy dear!

Don't you know that 99.9 % of what you're testifying hereon is undeniably found in the Bible; hence, you and Bruce are on the same train in this context. Where are those things that you are supposed to testify to who you claim to be, Christ?

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #23

Post by tam »

Good day Jack.
OneJack wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 10:31 pm [Replying to tam in post #21]
tam wrote:I don't know anything; I need to listen to Him.
Good day, Tammy dear!

Don't you know that 99.9 % of what you're testifying hereon is undeniably found in the Bible; hence, you and Bruce are on the same train in this context. Where are those things that you are supposed to testify to who you claim to be, Christ?
You're gonna need to find someone else to play with, Jack.

viewtopic.php?p=1185169#p1185169


Peace again.
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #24

Post by OneJack »

tam wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 10:42 pm Good day Jack.
OneJack wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 10:31 pm [Replying to tam in post #21]
tam wrote:I don't know anything; I need to listen to Him.
Good day, Tammy dear!

Don't you know that 99.9 % of what you're testifying hereon is undeniably found in the Bible; hence, you and Bruce are on the same train in this context. Where are those things that you are supposed to testify to who you claim to be, Christ?
You're gonna need to find someone else to play with, Jack.

viewtopic.php?p=1185169#p1185169


Peace again.
Good day, Tammy dear! The Bible is not Christ, and vice versa. May God bless you always!

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #25

Post by 1213 »

BruceLeiter wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 10:32 am ...@1213. Why don't they show that God IS three Persons?
There is nothing in the text that says or indicates God is three persons. The Bible says God is one (Deu 6:4), not three.
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #26

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #19]

@tam, instead of trying to rationalize the Bible to fit your own reasoning that emphasizes some passages and disregards or explains away others, you might just try to take it on its own terms. I mean that you might revisit my #14 post and see that Jesus talks about and prays to his Father in heaven, claims also to be God with his Father with his seven "I am" statements, and refers to the Holy Spirit as another Person of God. But God is also one God, as Deuteronomy 6:4 says. That's the Mystery God that I worship because the Bible portrays him as such, even though my mind cannot fully understand him. With that clear statement, I say goodbye, unless you have anything else to add to our discussion.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #27

Post by snowbound »

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #26]
instead of trying to rationalize the Bible to fit your own reasoning that emphasizes some passages and disregards or explains away others,
That's exactly what you're doing Bruce. The craziest thing is that you even admit that you cannot fully understand Him. I say that's because you've turned Jesus into God - the 'Mystery God' you worship'.

You even said that the holy spirit is the "Mystery God that I worship because the Bible portrays him as such", even though my mind cannot fully understand him. With that clear statement

You're too illogical for me. See what Seminary did to you? You've been brainwashed.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #28

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to snowbound in post #27]

Ha, ha, ha! @snowbound, I arrived at belief in the biblical truth of the Trinity long before I went to seminary because of the Bible's own words, though that school reinforced that belief. God's logic is far above and beyond our logic:

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 
Isa 55:10  “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 
Isa 55:11  so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. 

The Bible commands us to humble our reasoning and our whole lives before God in order to submit to his sometimes-mysterious thoughts:

Jas_4:6  But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
Jas_4:10  Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.
1Pe_3:8  Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.
1Pe_5:5  Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
1Pe_5:6  Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #29

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #4]

In addition to the verse that shows Jesus was a human, @1213, he also says that Jesus was both God in rising from the dead and man in dying for us with his letter to the Colossians, as follows:

Col 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 
Col 1:16  For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 
Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 
Col 1:19  For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 
Col 1:20  and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. 

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #30

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #10]

You're trying reason out a mystery, @1213, which is not possible since God is, in some ways, mysterious to us. He is one God in three Persons, and Jesus is fully human in dying on the cross for us and fully divine in rising from the dead, another mystery that the Scriptures present but do not solve for us. Maybe someday we will know more when Jesus comes back.

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