JESUS IS NOT YHWH

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?

I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:55 pm

[Replying to post 199 by tigger2]

So?

What does whatever you wrote have to do with how JWs worship Jesus?

Are you saying that JWs somehow bow down to statue of Jesus? What are saying about how the JWs worship Jesus today?

Why did you feel the need for a history lesson?

The simple is how do the JWs worship Jesus today. Has nothing to do with ancient time. If case you did know, the JW did not exist that long ago.

tigger2 · Post by **tigger2** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:50 am

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 199 by tigger2]

So?

What does whatever you wrote have to do with how JWs worship Jesus?

JWs don't worship Jesus in the modern English sense of the word 'worship.'

Are you saying that JWs somehow bow down to [a] statue of Jesus? What are saying about how the JWs worship Jesus today?

Of course not! They don't worship Jesus today.

Why did you feel the need for a history lesson?

The simple [sic] is how do the JWs worship Jesus today. [It/] Has nothing to do with ancient time. If [sic] case you did [sic] know, the JW did not exist that long ago.

I guess I thought you had enough intellect to understand it.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:09 am

[Replying to post 201 by tigger2]

Again how do the JWs worship Jesus today?

They do not offer prays to Jesus. Correct?

They do not ask in pray anything from Jesus. Correct?

They don't address Jesus as your worship. Correct?

So again I ask how they worship Jesus. They admit they worship him not as god but as a human. So, how do they worship this human called Jesus?

Still don't know the answer. I understand that they do not consider Jesus God, but do believe he is a demigod born from God and a human similar to a lot for other demigods. There is no denying the Jesus is a demigod by definition.

They do admit to worshipping Jesus but like they worship other men. All I am asking is how are they showing there worship of Jesus.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:43 am

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 201 by tigger2]

Again how do the JWs worship Jesus today?

We "worship" him in the original sense of the word (as explained in the "history lesson") ie. Jehovah's Witnesses give Jesus honor in recognition of his position.

*The word "worship" in the sense being used is archaic; for the rest of this post I will replace your chosen word with the more appropriate word "honor" (see history lesson) since it is understood the word is being used withing the context of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. Brackets will be indicative of this change.

Further reading
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 170#867170

Donray wrote:They don't address Jesus as your worship. Correct?

Did he ask us to?

Donray wrote: how they [strike]worship[/strike]* [/honor] Jesus.

Jehovah's Witnesses honor ("worship") Jesus by recongizing his place in Jehovah's order as our Savior, King and Leader. By putting faith in the ransom sacrifice he gave, obeying him, doing our utmost to follow his direction in everything we do, by following his example in our day to day lives, by sticking close to the congreation (of which he is the head) and by modeling our personalities after him.

Donray wrote:They do admit to ["worshipping"/honoring] Jesus but like they [strike]worship [/strike]* [honor] other men.

If by "like they [strike]worship[/strike] honor other men" you mean we also honor other humans, that is correct. The bible for example instructs children to "honor" their mother and father" and give "honor" to secular authorities. Unlike adoration of a Creator, honor is not somethng uniquely offered to Jesus. That said, all honor (except that offered to Jehovah) is relative, thus we can say that no other human or individual in heaven or on earth will ever receive the level of honor we offer to Jesus (since no other human can be regarded as our Savior, King and Leader).

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:17 am

[Replying to post 202 by Donray]

Donray wrote:[Jehovah's Witnesses] consider Jesus .. a demigod born from God

Incorrect. Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus a god, although not Almighty God. When on earth Jesus was 100% human. A son of God exactly equivalent to Adam.

Further reading
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 896#870896

* Note: Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is no longer a human. He was born a human and was one for just over 33 years, but is presently a mighty spirit at the right hand of God.

Benoni · Post by **Benoni** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:57 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 202 by Donray]

Donray wrote:[Jehovah's Witnesses] consider Jesus .. a demigod born from God
Incorrect. Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus a god, although not Almighty God. When on earth Jesus was 100% human. A son of God exactly equivalent to Adam.

Further reading
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 896#870896

* Note: Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is no longer a human. He was born a human and was one for just over 33 years, but is presently a mighty spirit at the right hand of God.

God does not have hands. This is a metaphor that speaks of power and authority. Scripture also speaks of God's left hand. A key to this vital truth is found in the words of David in Ps. 111:7 wherein he states states, "The works of HIS HANDS are verity and judgment." God is not a man, He possesses no body such as we have, for He is omnipresent Spirit; but God has ordained the visible realm to serve as an allegory to convey the realities which pertain to the higher realm of the invisible.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:24 pm

onewithhim wrote:
Monta wrote:
ttruscott wrote: Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GODs are a UNITY is a precise rendition of the words before it was taken over by the mistaken meaning of one.
I think you are trying to mke it fit yr religious convictions.
For sure. It doesn't say "our Gods." It is "God" singular. It says that God is only ONE, not more than one.

Christianity properly understood believe that God is One in Essence and Person.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 199 by tigger2]

So?

What does whatever you wrote have to do with how JWs worship Jesus?

Are you saying that JWs somehow bow down to statue of Jesus? What are saying about how the JWs worship Jesus today?

Why did you feel the need for a history lesson?

The simple is how do the JWs worship Jesus today. Has nothing to do with ancient time. If case you did know, the JW did not exist that long ago.

It's all right there in tigger's post! It couldn't be more plainly explained!

.

Benoni · Post by **Benoni** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:51 pm

Monta wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Monta wrote:
ttruscott wrote: Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GODs are a UNITY is a precise rendition of the words before it was taken over by the mistaken meaning of one.
I think you are trying to mke it fit yr religious convictions.
For sure. It doesn't say "our Gods." It is "God" singular. It says that God is only ONE, not more than one.
Christianity properly understood believe that God is One in Essence and Person.

God is a spirit. Never in scripture is God refereed to as a "person".

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:57 pm

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 201 by tigger2]

Again how do the JWs worship Jesus today?

They do not offer prays to Jesus. Correct?

They do not ask in pray anything from Jesus. Correct?

They don't address Jesus as your worship. Correct?

So again I ask how they worship Jesus. They admit they worship him not as god but as a human. So, how do they worship this human called Jesus?

Still don't know the answer. I understand that they do not consider Jesus God, but do believe he is a demigod born from God and a human similar to a lot for other demigods. There is no denying the Jesus is a demigod by definition.

They do admit to worshipping Jesus but like they worship other men. All I am asking is how are they showing there worship of Jesus.

We have not indicated in any way that we think Jesus was ONLY HUMAN. Besides that, it has been explained thoroughly via many threads over the months, and just above by tigger. Perhaps you can read it over and over until you get it.