Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

"At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness." (Is.35:5,6)

There are beautiful poetic passages in and outside of the Bible. The Golden Age is thus described by Roman authors, but that was a past age. When we say the lion will lie down with the lamb we are using figurative language: the lion representing warlike folk and the lamb would be the peacemakers. In an ideal world the two will come together, without strife.

The Bible must, by its nature, issue promises. The Koran tells red-blooded young Muslims that in Paradise they will have virgins waiting on green couches. If people have no carrot, they will have no hope.

I see no reason to turn metaphor into a future reality. A nice idea, but the sun will eventually set for ever and those who lie as atoms in the soil or in the atmosphere will be blasted into space..... many, many years from now.

You are right about the passage at Isaiah 11 having the meaning that people will no longer be savage, like animals. There are really two ways to look at those verses. I believe that what they describe will also be literal. The child is leading the animals, as he will be able to do in the new world because the animals will not be fierce any more either.

[marco]

There are really two ways to look at those verses. I believe that what they describe will also be literal. The child is leading the animals, as he will be able to do in the new world because the animals will not be fierce any more either.

Well I prefer a figurative interpretation. A literal take means we have to make assumptions about tigers once being vegetarian until Adam sinned, which seems highly improbable. If God adjusted the diets of living creatures, making some dangerous, then that would seem to have been an act more nasty than the sin of disobedience. Adam did not have the power to change the course of nature. So for me, a poetic reading is preferable.

[JehovahsWitness]

None of your quotations, referring to the earth, suggests the establishment of an eternal earthly paradise, defying the laws of physics.

I disagree, the word paradise simply means "garden" and there is nothing about a garden that defys the laws of physics; indeed, there are some beautiful gardens in existence today, the only difference is that of the entire earth being in a garden like (paradisaic) condition and given the planets amazing capasity to repair and replensh (and produce flowers and vegetation) I see nothing at all in the idea of the earth being a gardenlike (read: paradise) that defys the laws of physics.

Can you explain more why you think that a garden (original word for paradise) defys the laws of physics?

But it's a fabulous idea.

I agree.


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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 3 by catnip]

Check Genesis. Adam and Eve were with God "in Paradise".

The kingdom of Heaven is right here

Adam and Eve were KICKED OUT of the garden.
Weren't they?

[marco]

I disagree, the word paradise simply means "garden" and there is nothing about a garden that defys the laws of physics;

Paradisus in Latin does indeed mean a park or a garden; it also means a heaven. When used biblically it means what we all understand by the word Paradise, a place of perfection. If you are saying that people will be put into a sort of zoological park then fair enough; it is hardly something for the meek to rejoice over. The laws of physics are compromised by the notion that this park will last forever, meaning the sun, with its finite amount of energy, will also last for ever; and man, in his aging process, will go on aging but never die. Place him in a park if you want, but he's still defying the laws of physics in his eternal longevity.

I suspect you believe that the Earth will be a paradise in the sense we're used to rather than a reservation; with people wandering about in glorified bodies, and no dangerous fruit trees to trap the unwary.

[JehovahsWitness]

When used biblically it means what we all understand by the word Paradise

"We all"? We all who?

Is this an absolute statement of fact (it means what you and others say it means and that's the end of the discussion?) , or can I take the above statement to mean, that is what you and many others interpret the word to mean "biblically"? Of course you are free to your interpreation, as long as you can concede that that is exactly what you are presenting.

I am happy to interpret and accept that my interpretation is just that - my idea.

If the above applies, all I can say, is "we all" Jehovah's Witnesses have another interpretation.

Is that alright?


JW

[marco]

When used biblically it means what we all understand by the word Paradise

"We all"? We all who?

Is this an absolute statement of fact (it means what you and others say it means and that's the end of the discussion?) ..............

Yes, in many discussions I would allow that somebody else's interpretation of a word has some validity. I have never in my life met anyone who, faced with the statement:
"You shall be with me in Paradise," would take this to mean "I'll meet you in a garden." You are now informing me that such people exist and I am duly enlightened.

I rather thought that my familiarity with word usage, grammatical nuances and derivations was adequate for any occasion. You have disabused me of my apparent pride and I gratefully accept correction. Heaven might mean a shoe or an angel might be a goalkeeper.

Thus, if the meek shall become gardeners is what Jesus intended, I am of course happy for them, but rather surprised too. I shall now read the OP in a new light.

[JehovahsWitness]

You are now informing me that such people exist and I am duly enlightened.

I could not hope for more.

Yes, for Jehovah's Witnesses "paradise" is not refering to heaven but to THIS OUR PLANET EARTH in all its wonderous glorious beauty restored to its original "gardenlike" (ie paradisaic) condition. Even today, you may hear of people that discover a beautiful area and say "it's paradise here" (many an agent has sold a holiday destination under such a label) and though I understand that some people may well, be utterly confused by such expressions (concluding the holiday maker is dead and expression they are presently "in heaven"), the idea actually being conveyed is usually that they are in an area of extraordinary, idylic and unspoiled beauty. So strange as it may seem to you, when Jehovah's Witnesses biblically refer to "paradise" they mean something similar but on a global scale.

In short: this our entire planet earth in all its breathtaking beauty !



PARADISE: My earlier explanation
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p836115

Further reading
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -paradise/

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 3 by catnip]

Check Genesis. Adam and Eve were with God "in Paradise".

The kingdom of Heaven is right here

Adam and Eve were KICKED OUT of the garden.
Weren't they?

Indeed they were. Jehovah is offering us the ability to get back what Adam screwed up.

[onewithhim]

I disagree, the word paradise simply means "garden" and there is nothing about a garden that defys the laws of physics;

Paradisus in Latin does indeed mean a park or a garden; it also means a heaven. When used biblically it means what we all understand by the word Paradise, a place of perfection. If you are saying that people will be put into a sort of zoological park then fair enough; it is hardly something for the meek to rejoice over. The laws of physics are compromised by the notion that this park will last forever, meaning the sun, with its finite amount of energy, will also last for ever; and man, in his aging process, will go on aging but never die. Place him in a park if you want, but he's still defying the laws of physics in his eternal longevity.

I suspect you believe that the Earth will be a paradise in the sense we're used to rather than a reservation; with people wandering about in glorified bodies, and no dangerous fruit trees to trap the unwary.

We will not "go on aging." The Scriptures suggest that everyone will be young again and healthy and vigorous.

"Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25)

"At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness." (Isaiah 35:5,6)


Why should we fear the sun running out of energy? Isn't God who made it able to supply it energy for endless days?