Christian Salvation?

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

[POI]

I'll stop here for now. In regards to salvation, why can I ignore these Verses utterly?

Because they occurred before Jesus died.

The only path to salvation up until the crucifixion was to obey all of God's commandments.

Following the crucifixion, salvation was no longer based upon our works to fulfill the commandments, but a gift of God through Jesus Christ.

All we must do is accept His gift of everlasting life.

For all intents and purposes, let's go with what you have said. You are still objectively false. Apparently, He issued commands after He came back... It was one of the three Verses I provided in my prior response, for which you look to have ignored? (i.e.) Mark 16

15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Thus, at minimum, you must also be baptized, right? Isn't this an additional work, above and beyond belief alone?

And you have not answered my other question? Where does it say in the Bible, that "all the dead, who dye before the age of maturity, will again be raised and brought to maturity, so they may choose?"

[myth-one.com]

I'll stop here for now. In regards to salvation, why can I ignore these Verses utterly?

Because they occurred before Jesus died.

The only path to salvation up until the crucifixion was to obey all of God's commandments.

Following the crucifixion, salvation was no longer based upon our works to fulfill the commandments, but a gift of God through Jesus Christ.

All we must do is accept His gift of everlasting life.

For all intents and purposes, let's go with what you have said. You are still objectively false. Apparently, He issued commands after He came back... It was one of the three Verses I provided in my prior response, for which you look to have ignored? (i.e.) Mark 16

15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

The Second Coming has not yet occurred. What do you mean by "after He came back"?

Thus, at minimum, you must also be baptized, right? Isn't this an additional work, above and beyond belief alone?

No, one does not have to be baptized. Whoever does not believe will be condemned. Believers, baptized or not, will be saved.

And you have not answered my other question? Where does it say in the Bible, that "all the dead, who die before the age of maturity, will again be raised and brought to maturity, so they may choose?"

Sure I did.

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

[POI]

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

No, it does not. Please point it out. If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose. Thus far, you have used phrases, such as (post #75) -- "I imagine' and "that just my guess.'

[myth-one.com]

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

No, it does not. Please point it out. If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose.

Why does the Bible need to state something about that?

[POI]

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

No, it does not. Please point it out. If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose.

Why does the Bible need to state something about that?

Um, I keep asking if dead infants go to heaven or hell. You keep directing me nowhere. Meaning, no Verse(s) which tell the reader where they go. Stating that later resurrected people will be re-raised, to make a decision, leaves the dead infants in the exact same predicament as before. If they are not brought to age, the second time around, then it is no different than when they perished the first time. If you admit you do not know, and the Bible also does not distinguish the difference, then thanks for wasting my time. You could have just stated "I don't know", from the beginning.

Thus, my question remains unanswered... Do dead babies get a free pass, or are they sent to hell? If God cares not to tell the readers where they go, I see this as fairly clumsy; how about you? Many children die, prior to maturity. I would imagine many Christian parents wonder where they are sent. If God cares not to tell us, then I see this as irresponsible. I mean, we are talking about where they are to spend the rest of eternity.

[myth-one.com]

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

No, it does not. Please point it out. If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose.

Why does the Bible need to state something about that?

Um, I keep asking if dead infants go to heaven or hell. You keep directing me nowhere. Meaning, no Verse(s) which tell the reader where they go. Stating that later resurrected people will be re-raised, to make a decision, leaves the dead infants in the exact same predicament as before. If they are not brought to age, the second time around, then it is no different than when they perished the first time. If you admit you do not know, and the Bible also does not distinguish the difference, then thanks for wasting my time. You could have just stated "I don't know", from the beginning.

Thus, my question remains unanswered... Do dead babies get a free pass, or are they sent to hell? If God cares not to tell the readers where they go, I see this as fairly clumsy; how about you? Many children die, prior to maturity. I would imagine many Christian parents wonder where they are sent. If God cares not to tell us, then I see this as irresponsible. I mean, we are talking about where they are to spend the rest of eternity.

Christianity divides humanity into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers. Do you understand that?

Everyone will fit into one of these two groups. Do you accept that?

I described in detail what happens to both groups.

Dead infants are generally buried, and nothing happens to "them" until they are resurrected. Do you understand that?

They were very probably nonbelievers, so they will be resurrected at the second resurrection after the millennium. Do you understand that?

After that they will face judgment, be preached the gospel good news, and make their personal informed decision to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior.

Do you understand that?

If they accept Jesus, they will be born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God?

If they reject Jesus as their Savior, they will suffer their second and everlasting death?

Do you understand that?

[POI]

I showed what the Bible states about the future of every human who ever lived.

Are those who die before the age of maturity humans?

If so, my answer can be read in Posting #82 on Page 9!

No, it does not. Please point it out. If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose.

Why does the Bible need to state something about that?

Um, I keep asking if dead infants go to heaven or hell. You keep directing me nowhere. Meaning, no Verse(s) which tell the reader where they go. Stating that later resurrected people will be re-raised, to make a decision, leaves the dead infants in the exact same predicament as before. If they are not brought to age, the second time around, then it is no different than when they perished the first time. If you admit you do not know, and the Bible also does not distinguish the difference, then thanks for wasting my time. You could have just stated "I don't know", from the beginning.

Thus, my question remains unanswered... Do dead babies get a free pass, or are they sent to hell? If God cares not to tell the readers where they go, I see this as fairly clumsy; how about you? Many children die, prior to maturity. I would imagine many Christian parents wonder where they are sent. If God cares not to tell us, then I see this as irresponsible. I mean, we are talking about where they are to spend the rest of eternity.

Christianity divides humanity into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers. Do you understand that?

Everyone will fit into one of these two groups. Do you accept that?

I described in detail what happens to both groups.

Dead infants are generally buried, and nothing happens to "them" until they are resurrected. Do you understand that?

They were very probably nonbelievers, so they will be resurrected at the second resurrection after the millennium. Do you understand that?

I'm with you, up to here.... Please pay careful attention below, for this is where you seem to get lost.

After that they will face judgment, be preached the gospel good news, and make their personal informed decision to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior.

When the still-born is raised again, are they still a still-born? If not, how do you know? To my knowledge, a still-born does not have the capacity to reason such a concept. Does God give them time to grow, or are ALL the raised dead immediately brought to the age of enlightenment, so they may make a sound choice? If you continue not to provide Scripture to substantiate any of this, than this exchange has been nothing more than reading your assumptions/hopes/guesses.

Please remember what this topic is asking... What is the minimum for salvation? You have told me all you need is belief. Well, do the ones incapable of belief, get free passes (i.e.) born with severe brain damage, the youth, other? When they are brought back, does God wipe away their prior damage/youth/other, so they may be completely mature and of sound mind? ALL I'm asking for is Bible Verses to support YOUR position. The objective of this thread is to see what IS the minimum requires for Christian salvation? Thus far, your given standard looks to exclude people, without their ability for rational consent? Does this mean they are never given a fair shake? Or, does God make special preparations/considerations for such individuals?

And once we get this clarified, we can move forward So, are you going to point me to the Verse(s), or not?

[JehovahsWitness]

If an infant is raised, they are still an infant. Infants are not mature. The Bible needs to state something about raising the resurrected infant to maturity, so they may later choose.

The bible doesnt spell everything out for its readers, as The Lord said "Let the reader use discernment" (NWT) as in readers are expected to analyse the information that *is* presented to come to some reasonable conclusions. Scripture is clear on one thing in this regard :

ACTS 24:15 (NWT)

" . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."

A dead baby would be counted as "unrighteous" as it would lack the intellectual capacity to engage in the steps necessary to be counted otherwise. When resurrected babies and children grow to maturity they will then be in a position as adults to make an informed decision as to where they stand regarding the requirments for everlasting life.

JOHN 3:16

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LIFE, RESURRECTION and ... JUDGEMENT

[TRANSPONDER]

But that excuse isn't going to work, is it, either with heaven and hell or an eternal life on earth. The infants will be judged as infants and damned to hell or death before they had a chance to grow and even hear the gospels. They are sinners from before birth, remember.

They have no chance. No hearing, no justice. The only excuse (apart from persistent evasions such as we have been seeing) is to tough it out and say 'God can do as he likes'.

Fine. Then God is an evil vicious dictator according to the Christian theory and I can understand why many would reject Church doctrine and organised religion and prefer a (custom - made) decent and moral god, if they couldn't kick the whole religious thing into touch.

[JehovahsWitness]

They are sinners from before birth, remember.

We all are and will remain so even if we repent and turn to God. Still, God is not so unjust to condem someone for not doing that which they are incapable of doing. Those that die without having the opportunity to learn to live by His will will be shown mercy.

JONAH 4:11

Should I not also feel sorry for Nine-veh the great city,+ in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong,* as well as their many animals?"+