Does belief matter at all?

[Willum]

If you believe in Heaven.
If you believe in redemption.
If you believe in monotheism, or a monotheism that is a trinity.
If you believe they put a man on the moon.

Why would you think it has any effect on reality?
Why would you think it has any effect on the afterlife or God?
Realtiy, whatever it is, IS what it is, right?

If termites prayed to you would it make a difference?

Reality will be unchanged by your beliefs, right?
God is perfect and unchanged by your beliefs right?

So how does belief change God or what happens ever, or after you die?

If one termite believes you are his savior, and one believes I am it's saviour, does this change anything at all?

[bjs]

[Replying to post 30 by Willum]

Changing what we believe changes who we are. Our attitudes, actions and outlooks flow from our beliefs and reveal our beliefs.

Assuming that God exists and has criteria of some kind, then changing our beliefs changes if we meet those unchanging criteria or not.

So from that standpoint changing our beliefs absolutely changes what happens after we die.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 31 by bjs]

So, that is a preposterous position.
Say two people, one a murderer and the other a community leader, believe the same thing.

Many people believe the same things, that has nothing to do with reality HERE AND NOW, so looking at something all-powerful, why should it care what we believe?

Why should it affect how it treats us?

[bjs]

[Replying to Willum]

This treats belief as something separate from the individuals.

Genuine beliefs define a person. A person who believes life is valuable will not commit murder. I person who believes that only s/he matters and cares nothing for others will not become a community leader.*

Hence the aforementioned bit about how the belief “changes things for the termites.� What the termites believe will determine what the termites do.

Genuine belief both determine our actions and are revealed by our actions. It is a false to suggest that what a person believes can be separated from what a person does.


*This person might become a community leader by falsely claiming to care about others in order to gain status or wealth. This is a hypocrite.

[ttruscott]

In earthly terms you got it about right. But our sinful lives and aberrant deviancies had nothing to do with why HE created us (the topic) and how HE created us able to appreciate true love and a real marriage.

Can God appreciate true love and a real marriage? If so then God could have create God like beings who would without fail, choose to be in a loving and real marriage with God.

The drum you beat so continually is still out of tune...

The only way to achieve a true marriage based upon real love is if the participants choose by their free will to be a part of the marriage because that is what they want.

Free will must include the ability to reject the proposal.

Many suggest they would be be satisfied with a Stepford wife but YHWH was not.

[ttruscott]

Reality being reality, how will belief change things?
Does an all-powerful creature care about what you believe?

First,
the GOD's Bride answer is on topic because it explains how the relationship between us and GOD is nothing like the relationship between a termite and us therefore it is a false premise. It is also the reason why HE cares what we believe so it is precisely to the point.

Second,
Faith / belief changes our relationship with YHWH, which set our fate when we were innocents and on earth the return of our faith starts the process of redemption and regeneration in us that makes us heaven ready to be HIS Bride...

that is, one moment we are enslaved by our addiction to sin and unworthy of entering HIS presence and then by the gift of the restoration of our faith / belief by HIS grace our place in HIS family is restored, our free will is restored and HIS promise of our salvation is fulfilled.

So, let's see:
How does belief change things? Answered.

Does GOD care what we believe? Answered.

Rejoinders that the answer was off topic? Proven false.

Further disquiet over the answer not fitting the anti-Christian pov? Pending...

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 29 by bjs]

Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

Intellectually, Augustine represents the most influential adaptation of the ancient Platonic tradition with Christian ideas that ever occurred in the Latin Christian world. From a biography: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Augustine

Indeed; he ensured that the Platonic ideal that the blasphemic Greek wisdom definition of omniscience was brought into the church, along with the blasphemy we inherited Adam's sin:

Augustine
Augustine of Hippo wrote that original sin is transmitted by concupiscence and enfeebles freedom of the will without destroying it.

Augustine of Hippo (354–430) taught that Adam's sin is transmitted by concupiscence, or "hurtful desire", resulting in humanity becoming a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd), with much enfeebled, though not destroyed, freedom of will. When Adam sinned, human nature was thenceforth transformed. Adam and Eve, via sexual reproduction, recreated human nature. Their descendants now live in sin, in the form of concupiscence, a term Augustine used in a metaphysical, not a psychological sense.

One guy responsible for two blasphemies...sigh.

[Willum]

Well team, I think we have gotten to the underlying cause why you all remain Christian.

You all believe that the same beliefs generate the same results, and belief causes different things to happen,

To exacerbate with an unrealistic example: You believe that your beliefs can change things.
If you believe hard enough, that when you die, things will be different than if you have a different belief.

This is non-sequitur:
If a bad person fights his nature and believes you have two different positions on whether he will be blessed in heaven or not.
If a good person doesn't believe the exact right things, he may go to eternal suffering (or whatever). Or if a good person succumbs more than the bad above, he may be punished...

By belief.
It does not make sense from God's point of view.

Therefore the suppositions should be dismissed.

[Bust Nak]

The drum you beat so continually is still out of tune...

You say that yet you keep bring up the same old red herrings, I get to beat the drum continually until you addresses my counter response:

The only way to achieve a true marriage based upon real love is if the participants choose by their free will to be a part of the marriage because that is what they want.

Nothing in the scenario I suggested violdate the requirment of having "the participants choose by their free will to be a part of the marriage because that is what they want."

Free will must include the ability to reject the proposal.

Nothing in the scenario I suggested violdate the requirment of free will including "the ability to reject the proposal."

Many suggest they would be be satisfied with a Stepford wife but YHWH was not.

Nowhere have I suggested YHWY would or should be satisfied with "a Stepford wife."

All of your points are irrelevant, the charge of contradiction remains:

YHWH could have created the perfect scenario where EVERY SINGLE ONE of his creation choose by their free will (a free will that includes ability to reject the proposal) to be a part of the marriage because that is what they want. Yet YHWH did not go with the optimal scenario. There are only two reasons for this - either he couldn't do it, or he lacked the will to do it (or both.) In other words, the classic problem of evil.

You've heard this all before, yet you never move beyond the "free-will!" defense as if it was enough to get you out of trouble.

[FarWanderer]

Well team, I think we have gotten to the underlying cause why you all remain Christian.

You all believe that the same beliefs generate the same results, and belief causes different things to happen,

To exacerbate with an unrealistic example: You believe that your beliefs can change things.
If you believe hard enough, that when you die, things will be different than if you have a different belief.

This is non-sequitur:
If a bad person fights his nature and believes you have two different positions on whether he will be blessed in heaven or not.
If a good person doesn't believe the exact right things, he may go to eternal suffering (or whatever). Or if a good person succumbs more than the bad above, he may be punished...

By belief.
It does not make sense from God's point of view.

Therefore the suppositions should be dismissed.

Since all humans (save Jesus) are sinful, a condition to reach Heaven is to accept that Jesus "paid" the punishment for our sins. A price must be paid for your sins, so if you don't accept Jesus's sacrifice on your behalf then you will have to face the punishment (Hell) yourself. Not believing in Jesus's vicarious sacrifice is the same as rejecting his offer of salvation and in that case not even God can do anything more to help you.

...is how I understand it. But, you know, 10 Christians, 10 Christianities.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 39 by FarWanderer]

Point of order:
Only Jews and Christians are sinners.
The rest of us are awesomers.