You Are No Longer You!

[POI]

If God selects you into His Kingdom of Heaven, you are no longer you. Why?

1) You will no longer sin in Heaven, as Heaven is a sinless environment. Hence, you must have a portion of your freewill stripped from you (in some capacity).
2) You will not mourn for any of your loved ones, which do not also make it into Heaven; as Heaven has no mourning, as it is Heaven after all.

Which begs a follow up question....

Whoever God chooses, He must change, in preparation for such a divine space/arena. Humans are deemed perpetual sinners. Thus, if God must change all, for whom He elects, why not just allow ALL into Heaven?

[JehovahsWitness]

God states all humans are sinners.

FALSE : Jesus was a human and Jesus was entirely without sin.


RELATED POSTS

Did Jesus ever commit a sin?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p970361

Um, ever heard of the song, "more human than human" by White Zombie?

No I have not; I have heard'of Jeus though and the bible speaks of Jesus as being both sinless and human so it is false to state biblically that a human cannot be sinless. Your premise has therefore been debunked and you argument dismissed.

Would you like to attempt a counterargument (preferably without rock music)?





RELATED POSTS

Was Jeus really human?
viewtopic.php?p=1021352#p1021352

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JESUS , PERFECTION , and ...THE RANSOM

[POI]

God states all humans are sinners.

FALSE : Jesus was a human and Jesus was entirely without sin.


RELATED POSTS

Did Jesus ever commit a sin?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p970361

Um, ever heard of the song, "more human than human" by White Zombie? I believe this interlocutor, for which I'm engaging, knows what I mean here. But thanks for your concern

I am not concerned with anything but pointing out facts. The bible speaks of Jesus as being both sinless and human so it is false to state biblically that a human cannot be sinless. Your premise has therefore been debunked and you argument dismissed.

Would you like to attempt a counterargument (preferably without sarcasm)?

Oh, you want to reduce Jesus to the level of the current 8 billion other humans, and every other human who has ever lived? Okay. Good to know. And you want to aoid the sarcasm? I guess the moderators were mistaken earlier, when citing you as being snarky?

Moving forward, I would say that Christrians will argue that Jesus was a little MORE than JUST a 'human'. Sure, He encapsulated a 'human body', but He was not a mere human. He was above humans. Of course, I do not believe this claim; but this is what the claim of Christrians will assert.

Moving forward, I'm not sure you can actually engage this topic, because your belief is so entirely fringe-thinking, it hardly merits further investigation here. Not because the number of believers is what validates a claim, but instead becasue I too do not buy your belief system; which does not fall in line with standard/traditional Christian doctrine.

I'm asking Christians why God does not transform everyone? Apparently, when the chosen ascends to Heaven, they enter a Heavenly Kingdom - free from sin. Since all humans sin, and are unable to be free from sin, while on earth, what changes when they ascend to Heaven? I scratch my head here, because this line of questioning does not really concern you. And yet, you seem to be quite invested in this topic? I'm aware that the Mormons, JW's, and others, have fringe views; which do not pertain to this line of questioning. This question does not pertain to them, most likely.

So please, recent threads have just been created, which look to involve you directly. Why not give those a twirl?

Have a super great day!, or whatever you told to 'TRANSPONDER'; while telling me not to be sarcastic

[JehovahsWitness]

Oh, you want to reduce Jesus to the level of the current 8 billion other humans, and every other human who has ever lived?

Lets not talk about what I want or what people believe, let us just talk about facts. The bible states Jesus was a man (a human). Fact. It also states that he was without sin. Thus any argument that a human must be a sinner is null and void.

If you would like to withdraw your claim that your argument is whar scripture saysvbut instead based on majority belief and / or your own personal ideas, fair enough. But as long as you to claim to be presenting what the BIBLE states, you will be challenged.

Any questions?

[POI]

Oh, you want to reduce Jesus to the level of the current 8 billion other humans, and every other human who has ever lived?

Lets not talk about what I want or what people believe, let us just talk about facts. The bible states Jesus was a man (a human). Fact. It also states that he was without sin. Thus any argument that a human must be a sinner is null and void.

Any questions?

Oh, I have plenty of questions, and pleanty to say in regard to what you just wrote. But, I see no point, as you would likely discard most; per your apparent usual.

[JehovahsWitness]

... I see no point, as you would likely discard most; per your apparent usual.

Fair enough. As I said ... The bible states Jesus was a man (a human). Fact. It also states that he was without sin. Thus any argument that claims to be biblical that a human must be a sinner is null and void.

If you would like to withdraw your claim that your argument is what scripture says but instead is based on majority belief and / or your own personal ideas, fair enough. But as long as you to claim to be presenting what the BIBLE states, you will be challenged.

If you state "many believe..." or "churches teach.." or "when I was little I was taught in sunday school that..." that's fine. But you will not get away with claiming something is biblical when it is not as long as there is one of Jehovahs Witnesses in the house.





JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[POI]

... I see no point, as you would likely discard most; per your apparent usual.

Fair enough. As I said ... The bible states Jesus was a man (a human). Fact. It also states that he was without sin. Thus any argument that claims to be biblical that a human must be a sinner is null and void.

If you would like to withdraw your claim that your argument is what scripture says but instead is based on majority belief and / or your own personal ideas, fair enough. But as long as you to claim to be presenting what the BIBLE states, you will be challenged.

If you state "many believe..." or "churches teach.." or "when I was little I was taught in sunday school that..." that's fine. But you will not get away with claiming something is biblical when it is not as long as there is one of Jehovahs Witnesses in the house.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

This will go absolutey nowhere. Why? Because even if I were to state, from the jump, that "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners". Or, whatever technical form you would find suitable, then WHAT?

You do not think that when you die, you are going to a sinless Heavenly realm, right? If you feel you can engage the conversation, please do. If not, I see no use with your interventions here?

[TRANSPONDER]

You are going off -topic. 'you are no longer you' (if you have to be washed, rinsed and disinfected before you can get into heaven). It is not about the sinless nature of Jesus.

It is nothing but a nit -picking point anyway. Ok, every human but Jesus was born sinful after Adam. Except Mary perhaps

"Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.

Mom, you drop that right now! I did not say: 'She'!"

And never mind a derail into 'Did Jesus ever sin?' He did indeed, but no doubt the Bible apologists can excuse it as justified ..or( translated) 'If a Christian does it, it's ok'.

But high time we got back to topic: 'You are no longer you'

[brunumb]

As I said ... The bible states Jesus was a man (a human). Fact. It also states that he was without sin. Thus any argument that claims to be biblical that a human must be a sinner is null and void.

The Bible also states (Rom 3:23):
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

[JehovahsWitness]

... even if I were to state, from the jump, that "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners". Or, whatever technical form you would find suitable, then WHAT?

Well then someone with critical thinking skills would logically ask (this is where the skill comes in ..) , "if one acknowledges "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners" - what was different about the human Jesus ?". This would lead an intelligent person on an search for relevant scriptures and via that, would this thinking person would be in a position to use scripture and intelligence to better understand the biblical view of sin and humans. Not least to resolve the question as to if it is possible to be a human and without sin. And from there to springboard to the question whether one can retain ones individuality as a free moral agent yet be without sin (human or not).

Jesus is the key to understanding not only the OP but the very nature of sin and perfection so biblically acknowledgjng that "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners" is the first clue to finding the anwser to the question in OP of this thread.


I hope that answered your question,


JW

[nobspeople]

... even if I were to state, from the jump, that "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners". Or, whatever technical form you would find suitable, then WHAT?

Well then someone with critical thinking skills would logically ask (this is where the skill comes in ..) , "if one acknowledges "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners" - what was different about the human Jesus ?". This would lead an intelligent person on an search for relevant scriptures and via that, would this thinking person would be in a position to use scripture and intelligence to better understand the biblical view of sin and humans. Not least to resolve the question as to if it is possible to be a human and without sin. And from there to springboard to the question whether one can retain ones individuality as a free moral agent yet be without sin (human or not).

But of course as I said, in order to see the implications of this fact, a person would need an intelligent inquisitive mind and critical thinking skills. In view of that, would it be fair to say you cannot see what difference it would make to acknowledge "all earthly humans, besides Jesus, are sinners"?


JW

Are you saying, in a coy, passive aggressive way, that POI isn't intelligent and or have an intelligent and inquisitive mind? Is this a way of getting around the rule #1: "Personal attacks of any sort are not allowed. Comments about any person that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed."?