JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 328 by onewithhim]


"Jesus did not even have a thought about trying to grasp any kind of equality with God. It didn't occur to him, I would say. He had no interest in trying to become on an equal plane with his Father.

You seem to be adding to the verses that the Apostle John wrote. Yes, Jesus came from the Father. No indication of equality there. Neither is there when he says that he is "the way, the truth, and the life." Whatever power he had was GIVEN to him by the Father. This is evident throughout the Scriptures. He didn't "steal" any power. It was granted to him by Jehovah, because he "always did the things pleasing to the Father." (John 8:29)"

I don't have a though about trying to grasp that i am human! Would be bit silly if I did. Why would Lord Christ spend time on something that makes no sense?

You are saying that Jehovah God GAVE the power of Life Itself to someone lower than Himself. Can anything be higher than Life Itself? If they both have Power of Life they are equal. Earthly father can bestow all sorts of power to his son, but here we are talking about Divine Being who can not be divided.

Jesus doesn't have anything that the Father didn't GIVE him. Therefore Jesus is not equal to the Father.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 330 by onewithhim]


"Jesus doesn't have anything that the Father didn't GIVE him. Therefore Jesus is not equal to the Father."

Which Jesus rightly proclaimed.
Mary's son, the human, can not be equal with the Divine. I never said that he was.

Jesus' purpose was to unite the human within himself to the Divine within Himself and make them One which He established. Through His Divine Humanity we can access the Divininty within Himself.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 330 by onewithhim]


"Jesus doesn't have anything that the Father didn't GIVE him. Therefore Jesus is not equal to the Father."

Which Jesus rightly proclaimed.
Mary's son, the human, can not be equal with the Divine. I never said that he was.

Jesus' purpose was to unite the human within himself to the Divine within Himself and make them One which He established. Through His Divine Humanity we can access the Divininty within Himself.

Jesus is divine, but not equal to the Father, Jehovah. "Divine" applies to anything "relating to, or proceeding directly from God." (Dictionary definition.) That would include the angels. Jesus proceeded from God, of course, so he is definitely divine. He is just not The Diety. The Bible says that it is Jehovah alone who is the Most High (Psalm 83:18, KJV).

Jesus was not equal to God while he was on Earth, and he is not equal to God now. It was after he died, rose again, and went back to heaven that Jehovah GAVE him "the name that is above every other name" (Philippians 2:9) and exalted him "to a superior position." If he hadn't succeeded in his plan, God would not have exalted him. But Jesus was faithful and went through torture to save mankind from death, and thus his Father rewarded him. He often said that he could do nothing of his own initiative, but he copied what he learned from his Father and relied on the Father for everything. (John 5:19)

[For_The_Kingdom]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one. This post is just an obvious straw man and while I am sure that there are very small, minority Christian groups out there that teach modalism , this does not reflect the view of actual Trinitarians (like myself).

So to make a thread about it is, in my opinion, disingenuous and an obvious straw man.

[brianbbs67]

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one.

Doesn't most of Christianity claim they are the same?

[For_The_Kingdom]

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one.

Doesn't most of Christianity claim they are the same?

Not at all. They are all God, but they are not all the same person. They are three separate beings who share the same nature (Divine). Jehovah's Witnesses, of all people, should know this by now. But instead, they keep up with these straw man tactics.

[brianbbs67]

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one.

Doesn't most of Christianity claim they are the same?

Not at all. They are all God, but they are not all the same person. They are three separate beings who share the same nature (Divine). Jehovah's Witnesses, of all people, should know this by now. But instead, they keep up with these straw man tactics.

I think most churches teach that Jesus/Yeshua/Christ is God incarnate. Some even pray to Jesus. Which is wrong in my opinion. I thought these JW's believe Christ was only a man?

I believe in God , the father, His son, and the Holy Spirit. Consubstantial means from the same substance, not equal. Since we have God's breathe within us, we are, consubstantial to some degree.

Here's an example, I have wood from a Maple tree. i can use it as firewood, make a table or a chair and a myriad of other things. They are consubstantial, but not equal.

[JehovahsWitness]

I thought these JW's believe Christ was only a man?

We ( JehovahsWitness) do believe Jesus was born a human and for 33 years existed as a man (a human) on earth .

• Jehovah's Witnesses hold that Jesus was a created being that at one time did not exist at all but that after he was created Jesus spend countless ions with his Father in heaven as a mighty spirit (referred to by John as "The Word"). We believe this one came to earth born as a human of the virgin Mary, and eventually sacrificed that life to save mankind from sin and death. After his life as a man on earth Jesus returned to an even highter position at his Father's right hand to continue forever as an immortal mighty spirit

Jehovah's Witnesses are not trinitarians and do not believe Jesus has or ever will be equal to YHWH the Father in power, position or seniority. Although united in purpose, they remain two distinctly different individuals. We believe only the Father Jehovah (YHWH) can be described as Almighty God of which there is only one.


source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... s-beliefs/

JW



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JESUS , MICHAEL, and ....MESSIANIC PROPHECY

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one. This post is just an obvious straw man and while I am sure that there are very small, minority Christian groups out there that teach modalism , this does not reflect the view of actual Trinitarians (like myself).

So to make a thread about it is, in my opinion, disingenuous and an obvious straw man.

I don't get what you are trying to say. It would be nice if you were clear in what you want to get across. Why is the subject a "straw man"?

There are some on these threads who have said that they think that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person. Apparently you have not seen their posts. Perhaps it would be a good idea to be well-informed before you go making accusations.

[onewithhim]

This entire post is a straw man. Who is making the argument that the Father/Son are the same person? Who? No one.

Doesn't most of Christianity claim they are the same?

Not at all. They are all God, but they are not all the same person. They are three separate beings who share the same nature (Divine). Jehovah's Witnesses, of all people, should know this by now. But instead, they keep up with these straw man tactics.

I think most churches teach that Jesus/Yeshua/Christ is God incarnate. Some even pray to Jesus. Which is wrong in my opinion. I thought these JW's believe Christ was only a man?

I believe in God , the father, His son, and the Holy Spirit. Consubstantial means from the same substance, not equal. Since we have God's breathe within us, we are, consubstantial to some degree.

Here's an example, I have wood from a Maple tree. i can use it as firewood, make a table or a chair and a myriad of other things. They are consubstantial, but not equal.

What JehovahsWitness wrote above is right on the money. Jesus was thoroughly human while on Earth, but not "just a man" like other men. He is now in heaven preparing to take over the governance of the planet, eliminating all man-rule. This Kingdom government is what the entire Bible is about.

The Trinity has no scriptural basis. The doctrine was gradually formed from the latter first century onward to the 4th century, where it became official doctrine, thanks to a pagan ruler.

Anyway, again, no, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was just a man.