Why Doesn't Anyone Know What A God Is?

[DavidLeon]

Debate Question: What is a god? Why is it that no one seems to understand the simple concept of god anymore? Hopefully what I will do here is demonstrate why no one seems to know what a god is by demonstrating what exactly a god is. Hopefully.

[Willum]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #9]

Several points of order:
A Jew does not have to be religious. You are thinking of Judaist.
The Judaists were not monotheistic until about 300 CE. A quick Google about Yahweh's wife will conclude this for you.
All cultures are henotheistic, arrogantly believing their gods are better than others.

They all claim their imaginary friend can beat up everyone else's.
They are all right of course. That's imagination.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #6]

Sorry, typo, fixed...
"A god is an imaginary being venerated by a culture."

A definition without any exception.

So you didn't see the photograph of the deity I gave?



The above image is a god venerated by cultures for thousands of years. It exists.

We're done.

[DavidLeon]

This is a confusing statement. The common uses of a word is its definition. Words have the meaning that we give them. There is no inherent meaning to any given arrangement of letters; the way people use a word is what the word means.

I worded that wrong. There are examples and definitions. Some examples are listed as definitions. There is a difference. A definition of god would be anything venerated. Examples are listed below with some definitions.

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

2. (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

"a moon god"

Similar: deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, supreme being, divinity, immortal, creator, demiurge, godhead, daemon, numen, avatar,

an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god.

Similar: idol, graven image, icon, golden calf, totem, talisman, fetish, mascot, juju,

used as a conventional personification of fate.
"he dialed the number and, the gods relenting, got through at once"

3. an adored, admired, or influential person.
"he has little time for the fashion victims for whom he is a god"

a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
"don't make money your god"

4. INFORMAL
the gallery in a theater.

Sure, whatever people venerate can be called a god. People can make money their god. Or they can make sex their god. That is one way to use the term god.

It would be misleading to say that this is the only meaning for the term god. The term can also be used to refer specifically to a supernatural Being, or the Supreme Being, or to the Creator of the universe and source of all moral authority.

Correct, but not when using the plural and not necessarily to all gods. In other words, God isn't the same as gods. In the West, God is the Christian God. So if someone doesn't believe in God, that's one thing, but not believing in gods is another. Some of the gods on the dictionary listing given above do exist. When an atheist thinks of the word god they think it is either the Christian God or some mythological or supernatural gods. They don't think a god can exist, or be shown to exist.

People who use the word that way have not misunderstood the concept of god. They correctly understand that words have different meanings in different contexts. It would be a misunderstanding of the term “god” to suggest that the word can only means something that is venerated. It can mean only that, but it can also mean something else.

I don't think so. Which god in the above list or anywhere else isn't venerated? You said the word can also mean something else. What else?

Imagine someone saying “I pray to God,” and later saying, “Money is his god.” No person with knowledge of the English language would suggest that “god” means the same thing in both those sentences.

Why not? Both are gods. Both are venerated. Only one is prayed to but being prayed to isn't a requirement of a god.

[Willum]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #22]

You believe two crossed sticks are worshiped as a god?
I do not think you do.

But I do think you are willing to propose anything to save God or gods from the closed form solution I provided.

"A god is an imaginary being venerated by a culture."

Proposing sticks are a god... good one.

[DavidLeon]

Thank you for that response.

You are most welcome.

May I now ask how you know all of that to be true.

Study. Research. Comparison. The Bible. The same way you know we evolved. Knowledge comes from personal experience, observation and study. I have never personally experienced God. Never observed him. You have never personally experienced or observed evolution. I can look at a tree and say that was created. You can look at a person and say they evolved. But that isn't knowledge in the sense of personal experience or observation. I haven't seen the tree created and you haven't seen the person evolving.

We read it in a book. We were told, schooled, educated, indoctrinated.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #22]

You believe two crossed sticks are worshiped as a god?
I do not think you do.

But I do think you are willing to propose anything to save God or gods from the closed form solution I provided.

"A god is an imaginary being venerated by a culture."

Proposing sticks are a god... good one.

Okay. What's the difference and how do you account for the dictionary definition of a god as an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god, or an adored, admired, or influential person. Eric Clapton is a god. Kim Jong-Il is a god. Jesus Christ was a god. Moses was a god. The Sumerian king Tammuz was a god. Japanese emperors were gods. All existed. All gods.

I'm not trying to propose anything to save God or gods from the closed form solution you've provided, you are trying to limit the definition of a god to anything you don't think could exist so you can draw the erroneous conclusion that gods don't exist.

You only need to me more specific. God doesn't exist. Some gods do exist some don't, but whether or not they exist they are still gods. So it doesn't matter God exists or not, the problem remains the same. God's existence or nonexistence doesn't effect you in any way. If you knew God did exist that wouldn't make him your God. If you think he doesn't exist that doesn't make him not my God.

It's a moot point to justify your ideology.

[Willum]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #26]

Sir, no one proposes a two crossed sticks, a star, a wheel are gods.
The dictionary definition does not seem to coincide with what you say it does - at least not the one I used...

In addition, I have proposed an answer to your topic, if you were just going to use the dictionary as your end-all-be-all, then this conversation, this topic was born unworthy of discussion.

I have proposed an ad hoc definition if you will.
It seems to improve on any dictionary definition as it includes all gods.

Calling two sticks gods does nothing to dissuade this, except to trivialize gods to the point of triviality, and, again, being unworthy of discussion.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #26]

Sir, no one proposes a two crossed sticks, a star, a wheel are gods.
The dictionary definition does not seem to coincide with what you say it does - at least not the one I used...

In addition, I have proposed an answer to your topic, if you were just going to use the dictionary as your end-all-be-all, then this conversation, this topic was born unworthy of discussion.

I have proposed an ad hoc definition if you will.
It seems to improve on any dictionary definition as it includes all gods.

Calling two sticks gods does nothing to dissuade this, except to trivialize gods to the point of triviality, and, again, being unworthy of discussion.

Your response is a god is anything that doesn't exist as you define it. End of discussion? The dictionary does coincide exactly with what I say a god is. It doesn't with what you say it is. Two crossed sticks, in fact one stick uncrossed, can be a god that does exist.

[Miles]

Why do I venerate and worship Jehovah above all others? Because he is sovereign. He created the heavens and earth. He is the only god bringing us life, even in this temporary, imperfect and wicked system the life we have is amazingly awesome. And he gives us hope for a future that we can't even imagine. Which, by the way, is what he originally intended. That purpose has only been briefly stalled.

So, don't you have a special term for such gods---those gods who people find to be sovereign, have created heaven and earth, brought us life, and are "amazingly awesome"--- if for no other reason than to separate them from all the other gods? Or is it quite alright that people think that, as a god, Hitler is sovereign, created heaven and earth, brought us life, and is "amazingly awesome"?

.

[DavidLeon]

Why do I venerate and worship Jehovah above all others? Because he is sovereign. He created the heavens and earth. He is the only god bringing us life, even in this temporary, imperfect and wicked system the life we have is amazingly awesome. And he gives us hope for a future that we can't even imagine. Which, by the way, is what he originally intended. That purpose has only been briefly stalled.

So, don't you have a special term for such gods---those gods who people find to be sovereign, have created heaven and earth, brought us life, and are "amazingly awesome"--- if for no other reason than to separate them from all the other gods? Or is it quite alright that people think that, as a god, Hitler is sovereign, created heaven and earth, brought us life, and is "amazingly awesome"?

.

You are aware that there are millions of gods, correct? You could probably name a dozen or more, right? Do you think they are all Jehovah? Do you think that all of the gods that Jehovah God told the Jews to not put before him are all the same as him? There is only one god and he has to fit what description you think he should fit into. And he doesn't exist.

Hitler, Emperor Jimmu, Kim Jong-un, Eric Clapton, King Tammuz, Jesus, etc. all have to be creators of the heavens and earth, givers of life?

Stop. Just for a minute. Think about it.

If I make my left shoe a god is it not a god? If so what makes it a god and if not what prevents it from being a god? If you answer anything but it is venerated you are wrong. Shiva. Satan. Moses. The judges of Israel. Baal, Molech, Ashtoreth . . . . Frodo, money . . .

"for there are many, I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping, who are walking as the enemies of the torture stake of the Christ, and their finish is destruction, and their god is their belly, and their glory consists in their shame, and they have their minds upon things on the earth." - Philippians 3:18-19