What is special about Jesus?

[Wootah]

If we can agree that bulls and lambs are insufficient propitiations for our sins then what makes Jesus a sufficient propitiation?

Especially if you think Jesus is a created being then what makes one created being sufficient and another insufficient?

If he is a human then how did he pull it off to not sin for 33 years? Was Jesus created perfect?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #10]

His superiority. The value if a human is more than that of any number of animals. Being a perfect human Jesus sacrifice was more valuable to God than any animal. God deemed it sufficient to cover for our sins.

How can a human be perfect?

By Gods power. Anything is possible with God.

Are you talking about humans as we know them?

Merriam Webster's defines a human as..

HUMAN noun

a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/human

I am talking about the above

How is Jesus according to mankind if he was made perfect?

I don't understand the question. Perhaps you can rephrase.

[jimtatertayte]

[Replying to jimtatertayte in post #4]

I find that hard to follow. Are you arguing Jesus is a special creature?

Did I say Jesus was a special creature?

I found it hard to follow. What are you saying?

If you can't understand my words get a dictionary and look them up.
My words are not like them in the bible and need a human being to interpret them.
They mean exactly as I wrote them.

Oh and my words were not translated from another language.
So be sure and use an English dictionary.

[JehovahsWitness]

To DEEM means to regard or consider something in a specified way. God regards animal sacrifices as being less valuable than the sacrifice of a human life.

Why can't God deem anything as sufficient if he is deeming?

He can consider or regard anything he likes anyway he likes. He can consider a rock as valuable as a diamond if he likes , he can regard (or deem) the life of a worm as more valuable than the life of a child if he chooses. According to the bible God chose not to deem animal sacrifice sufficient to atone for adamic sin, but to deem a a perfect human as sufficient. We have to aquiese to His assessment.

Did Jesus actually do what was required to be a perfect sacrifice .... ?

Yes.

... or did God deem [regard] it?

Did God regard (deem) it (Jesus sacrifice) s sufficient? Yes God did indeed see /regard/deem Jesus sacrifice as sufficient atonement for mankinds sin.







JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus isn't human now but he was. How did he manage to live without committing a sin? His complete LOVE for God, his personal integrity and his unwavering love of goodness and truth.

So are you arguing Jesus is perfect ....?

Yes, I arguing that Jesus is perfect although he is no longer a human.

So are you arguing ...that he was not perfect but managed to live a perfect life?

No I am not arguing that Jesus was not perfect but managed to live a perfect life.

[JehovahsWitness]

So how can there be any sin at all?

Sin comes about when someone violates Gods law or standards. Jesus never did that but if he had, that would have been a sin.

Can God create God? Do you think that an omnipotent being can make another omnipotent being?

Why do you ask?

[Miles]

So how can there be any sin at all?

Sin comes about when someone violates Gods law or standards. Jesus never did that but if he had, that would have been a sin.

How do you know he didn't?

Thing is, with an agenda to promote Jesus as the son of god and savior of humanity, the writers of the NT would have never let any such sinning become known. So reasonably, the best that can be said is "We don't know if Jesus ever sinned or not." Maybe YES Maybe NO

And to say, as some have, that "of course he didn't sin because then he wouldn't be the Messiah," is just begging the question.



.

[brunumb]

Calling something heinous doesn't make it so. And nobody said anything about reparation, as if Job's or Jesus' sacrifice somehow pays the price for our sins. It is not a matter of making reparations, but of redemption.

OK then, redemption. Either way the biblical scenario is all invented nonsense. make up a disease, tell everyone they've got it and then offer them the cure. You only find out if it worked when you die. Great scam. And, if you take off your rosy Bible glasses, you will see that the story of Job is indeed heinous.

[JehovahsWitness]

So how can there be any sin at all?

Sin comes about when someone violates Gods law or standards. Jesus never did that but if he had, that would have been a sin.

How do you know he didn't?

Did I say I know he didn't?

[Wootah]

[Replying to jimtatertayte in post #32]

Fair enough.

[Wootah]

To DEEM means to regard or consider something in a specified way. God regards animal sacrifices as being less valuable than the sacrifice of a human life.

Why can't God deem anything as sufficient if he is deeming?

He can consider or regard anything he likes anyway he likes. He can consider a rock as valuable as a diamond if he likes , he can regard (or deem) the life of a worm as more valuable than the life of a child if he chooses. According to the bible God chose not to deem animal sacrifice sufficient to atone for adamic sin, but to deem a a perfect human as sufficient. We have to aquiese to His assessment.

Did Jesus actually do what was required to be a perfect sacrifice .... ?

Yes.

... or did God deem [regard] it?

Did God regard (deem) it (Jesus sacrifice) s sufficient? Yes God did indeed see /regard/deem Jesus sacrifice as sufficient atonement for mankinds sin.

JW

Personally, I don't think he can deem a worm as worth more than a child but I won't push that ... unless a good reason comes up.

You are having it both ways here. If God can deem whatever he likes then not accepting sacrifices of other types is arbitrary. If God cannot deem what he will accept, but only accepts a perfect sacrifice, then how can the man Jesus do such a thing? How can a created being achieve God's standard?

Actually, I still can't understand why the sacrifice has to be perfect for you, surely good enough is good enough?