"Memorials"?

[Athetotheist]

The last chapters of Ezekiel are generally regarded by Jews and Christians alike as a picture of the messianic age. From a Jewish perspective this may work, but Christian doctrine runs into a problem in chapter 45 when "the prince" makes sacrificial offerings----including sin offerings----for the people and for himself, which doesn't paint a very strong picture of a messianic age ruled by Jesus who already made the ultimate atoning sacrifice. Some apologists claim that the prince isn't Jesus and that the latter is in the background of the scenario, but that doesn't solve the problem since Jesus is supposed to have made the final sacrifice for everyone, so no further sacrifice should be necessary.

Here apologists resort to the claim that these are "memorial" sacrifices which are made to "remind" those living in the messianic age of what Jesus did. The problem with this is that the text itself gives a reason for the sacrifices, and that's not it:

"He (the prince) shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel. (Ezek. 45:17, bolding mine)

If those sacrifices are to be offered to make atonement, that means atonement hasn't been made until the sacrifices are offered. How then are they supposed to be "memorials" to some atonement already made by some sacrificial Messiah?

[Athetotheist]

Where does the Jewish Bible (the Tanakh) have Jehovah saying that the Jewish people would ever be replaced by anyone?

They were not "replaced", since they never occupied a "place" in thé New Covenent and the conditions of the promise was intrinic in biblical warnings.

1 SAMUEL 12:24-25

Only fear Jehovah, and serve him faithfully with all your heart, for see what great things he has done for you. But if you flagrantly do what is bad, you will be swept away, both you and your king.”

Evidently God's promise of a new covenant would be dependent on their faithfulness as a nation. Logically if they reacted The Prophet sent to mediate said covenant, the promise became null and void.

The new covenant was made with them----Israel and Judah, brought out of the land of Egypt.....that's the "logic of the text". And as the experts point out in my post #39, the covenant was to be everlasting.

[JehovahsWitness]

The new covenant was made with them----Israel and Judah, brought out of the land of Egypt.....that's the "logic of the text".

The promise was indeed made to the natural Jews but are you claiming "The New covenant" is currently in operation? If so, what year did it go into force? Who was its mediator? What are its terms ?


JW

[Athetotheist]

The promise was indeed made to the natural Jews but are you claiming "The New covenant" is currently in operation?

No----that's just it. According to the author of Hebrews there's a "High Priest" in heaven mediating the "new covenant", but the people to whom an everlasting covenant was promised haven't seen its fulfillment. And Jews recognize this. The Torah-observant among them believe that it will happen, but they acknowledge that it hasn't happened yet.

Nor, for that matter, has anyone else seen its fulfillment. If Jesus is mediating a "new covenant" from heaven, why do Christians sit in churches every week being taught by ministers how to "know the Lord"?

If the "first covenant" is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), why isn't the new covenant in operation?

[JehovahsWitness]

... the people to whom an everlasting covenant was promised haven't seen its fulfillment. And Jews recognize this. The Torah-observant among them believe that it will happen, but they acknowledge that it hasn't happened yet.

Is your point that the Jews are still waiting for the New covenant? If so I have already addressed that point. Ses post #48
viewtopic.php?p=1024172#p1024172

... Nor, for that matter, has anyone else seen its fulfillment.

You cannot prove that.

... . If the "first covenant" is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), why isn't the new covenant in operation?

I believe The New Covenant is indeed in operation.

... . If Jesus is mediating a "new covenant" from heaven, why do Christians sit in churches every week being taught by ministers how to "know the Lord"?

You are misapplying the scripture.

[Athetotheist]

I believe The New Covenant is indeed in operation.

Where? Who has the law "written on their hearts"? Who no longer teaches their neighbors or their brothers, saying, "Know the Lord?"

[JehovahsWitness]

I believe The New Covenant is indeed in operation.

Where? Who has the law "written on their hearts"? Who no longer teaches their neighbors or their brothers, saying, "Know the Lord?"

Where? Right here on earth

Who has the law "written on their hearts"? Spirit anointed born again Christians

Who no longer teaches their neighbors or their brothers, saying, "Know the Lord?" Spirit anointed born again Christians



JW




RELATED POSTS



What does it mean to be born again?
viewtopic.php?p=850455#p850455

[Athetotheist]

I believe The New Covenant is indeed in operation.

Where? Who has the law "written on their hearts"? Who no longer teaches their neighbors or their brothers, saying, "Know the Lord?"

Where? Right here on earth

Who has the law "written on their hearts"? Spirit anointed born again Christians

Who no longer teaches their neighbors or their brothers, saying, "Know the Lord?" Spirit anointed born again Christians

If born-again Christians have the law put in their minds and written on their hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), why do so many of them later conclude that Christianity isn't true?

More expert refutation of replacement theology:

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... ant-israel