Hated believers

[nobspeople]

If you're a Christian, are you or do you feel hated by other people?
Do you think it's right to hate (or strongly dislike if you wish, but hate is real even if it sounds too strong of a word to use) Christians simply because they're Christians, or should it be more based on their actions?

In the USA (and maybe other areas as well?) we hear, from time to time, Christian organizations seemingly rebutting a challenge to their ability to worship as they see fit. Most recently I've come across is a court case involving church service and COVID restrictions but I've also see Christians protesting movie and their releases as well as legally challenging gay marriage, stating that (somehow) gay marriage prevents their "ability to worship". Many times, these groups get push back from the public, from the collective rolling of eyes to legal challenges.

As a Christian, do you feel others see you negatively?
If so, do you think it's legitimate, or is it some kind of grand Satanic conspiracy of some type?

[Dimmesdale]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

I think pretty much any group, sect, political party, or religion, etc, has been hated by someone somewhere at some point in history. Christians should not think they are special just because they are hated - which they are - by some people.

It is natural to be hated in this world, whether you are good or bad. People hate for all sorts of reasons, some of which are actually understandable, others not so much. People can hate due to righteous indignation - they feel Christians are for example bigoted, which some indeed are. Others may hate them out of sheer envy, etc.

Regarding actions (praxis) and teaching (theory) - it is very hard to make the distinction in a lot of ways. I do believe there is an ideal character, but I'm not so sure Christian teaching can really be separated from faulty action - because I personally think the Christian worldview is incomplete and therefore itself defective - and therefore invariably leads to (subpar) actions. But that's my opinion.

I also think a lot of the pushback against Christians is that Christianity does not conform easily to other spheres or dimensions of secular life. It isn't necessarily that people hate the religion itself, but because it does not dovetail so easily with other aspects of modern life which they prize. So people take Christianity to be threatening or are in some other way insecure about it - that it for example engenders the potential for prejudice against gays, freedom, etc - even though the stalwart practitioners may themselves be blameless.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

I think pretty much any group, sect, political party, or religion, etc, has been hated by someone somewhere at some point in history. Christians should not think they are special just because they are hated - which they are - by some people.

It is natural to be hated in this world, whether you are good or bad. People hate for all sorts of reasons, some of which are actually understandable, others not so much. People can hate due to righteous indignation - they feel Christians are for example bigoted, which some indeed are. Others may hate them out of sheer envy, etc.

Regarding actions (praxis) and teaching (theory) - it is very hard to make the distinction in a lot of ways. I do believe there is an ideal character, but I'm not so sure Christian teaching can really be separated from faulty action - because I personally think the Christian worldview is incomplete and therefore itself defective - and therefore invariably leads to (subpar) actions. But that's my opinion.

I also think a lot of the pushback against Christians is that Christianity does not conform easily to other spheres or dimensions of secular life. It isn't necessarily that people hate the religion itself, but because it does not dovetail so easily with other aspects of modern life which they prize. So people take Christianity to be threatening or are in some other way insecure about it - that it for example engenders the potential for prejudice against gays, freedom, etc - even though the stalwart practitioners may themselves be blameless.

Thanks for the feedback.
As you eluded, hate is so prevalent in the world (some may say TOO prevalent). Surely every group has had 'its day' under the hate lamp.
About conforming, I see Christianity as easily malleable to almost any culture or sphere, to use your words. We see so many different kinds of Christianity around the planet (and throughout time) that it seems quite capable to evolve and continue so long as there are people willing to accept it IMO.

[Dimmesdale]

Thanks for the feedback.
As you eluded, hate is so prevalent in the world (some may say TOO prevalent). Surely every group has had 'its day' under the hate lamp.
About conforming, I see Christianity as easily malleable to almost any culture or sphere, to use your words. We see so many different kinds of Christianity around the planet (and throughout time) that it seems quite capable to evolve and continue so long as there are people willing to accept it IMO.

Yes, about hate.... There is a sense in which Christianity can be said to be an outlier... in the sense that it almost paints itself with a target, mainly due to its exclusive and missionary (some would say fanatical) nature. That Jesus is "the" Saviour instead of an "a" Saviour, for example. Christians may say that this is the truth, that they are unwilling to compromise on the truth, but I wonder sometimes if this isn't just a power play, something that Christians ran with from the earliest days to garner a power-base and "unify" people, sometimes by force. An Us against Them mentality..... I believe truth is exclusive (in respects) but I don't believe we should kill over doctrinal differences. Then again maybe I am being unfair since Ancient Rome also ordered universal homage to Caesar and the Roman pantheon I think. But this is a thing.

Christianity is malleable, in that it has found universal appeal among all ethnic groups. That doesn't mean it's always been welcome though. There is a huge difference. People still need to be persuaded to accept its tenets. And in the West it is finding less and less appeal.

[Miles]

.


As I see it, any hate for Christians isn't because of what they are, but for what they do and try to do.

Trying to get creationism taught in public school science classes.
Putting references to god onto government property e.g. "In god we trust" on our money
Enacting blue laws: Mandatory store closings on Sunday.
Enacting laws against non-heterosexuals. Sodomy laws against homosexual sex.
Sowing hatred: "God hates fags," "God hates Jews," "Planes crash god laughs," "Pray for more dead soldiers" signs
Enacting laws that only favor religious activities. Granting special rights to assemble (re. covid-19).
The fact that, "Half of Americans say Bible should influence U.S. laws, including 28% who favor it over the will of the people."
source

.

[JehovahsWitness]

Nobody likes to be hated but if it comes because I stand by what I see as bible law and principle then I can live with it. Jesus warned his followers that they should expect to be persecuted and I would rather be hated than beaten, tarred and feathered, arrested, impisoned or executed by firing squad or beheaded by guillotine (see below) as has been (and is) the case for many of my Jehovah's Witness brethren.

"Dislike is a mild word to describe [Hiltlers] attitude toward them; he denounced them as enemies of the State and persecuted them ruthlessly" "This simple and satisfactory belief lent them strength and made them able to stand the long years of concentration-camp life and all the indignities and humiliations and still retain their human dignity. They were given cause to prove, and they proved, that death had no terrors for them. They could die for their beliefs without shrinking"... Under Two Dictators (1949), by Margarete Buber

FURTHER READING : The persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses
https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Persecution

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LOVE, HATE and ... RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION

[Overcomer]

nobspeople wrote:

About conforming, I see Christianity as easily malleable to almost any culture or sphere, to use your words. We see so many different kinds of Christianity around the planet (and throughout time) that it seems quite capable to evolve and continue so long as there are people willing to accept it IMO.

The reality is that Christ is for everyone. He cuts across all cultures. He offers salvation to the whole world. And yes, Christianity can fit into any society and any ethnic group BUT it must do so without changing its core beliefs about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and salvation or watering down the Bible to the point where it is meaningless. Certainly every culture can introduce its food, its music, its language, its traditions, etc. into the Christian experience and make their celebration of Jesus, who he is and what he has done, truly unique to that culture. However, the foundational doctrines of Christianity cannot and should not evolve nor should the orthodox understanding of the identity of Jesus Christ. If they are altered, then what you have is something that is no longer Christianity even if those who practice it use Christian terminology and call themselves Christians.

[Tcg]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

It is important to note that Christians are often hated by other Christians. The following documents at least in part the reasoning for the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia:

Russian police raid Jehovah's Witnesses' homes

The Russian Orthodox Church welcomed the ban in 2017. A senior Orthodox cleric, Metropolitan Hilarion, called the Jehovah's Witnesses a "totalitarian sect" on Russian TV.

He said: "It's hard to deny that these cultists will remain and continue their activity... but at least they'll stop openly claiming to be a Christian faith, in other words, in the market place of existing Christian confessions this product will no longer be on display.

"And I think that's all for the best. It'll save families, people's lives".

The Jehovah's Witnesses were founded in the US in the late 19th Century and stick to a very literal reading of the Bible, rejecting the interpretations of many Christian scholars and the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55061919

It is not unusual for Christians to claim that other Christians aren't actually Christians and use this reasoning as an excuse for their hatred.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

It is important to note that Christians are often hated by other Christians.

Jesus was hated by his fellow Jews, indeed religions persecution has often proven to be the most viscious one of all.



The biblical record indicates that early Christians were intially viewed as a Jewish sect and opposed not by secular (Roman) authorities but by their Jewish brethren.



RELATED POSTS

Who persecuted the early Christians?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p333899

To read more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION

[Tcg]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #6]

According to this source's reports on the contents of Jean Crespin's Book of Martyrs, we find another example of Christian hatred of other Christians:

Jean Crespins Book of Martyrs

IN 1546, 14 men of Meaux, France, were found guilty of heresy and condemned to be burned alive. Their crimes? They met in private homes, prayed, sang psalms, observed the Lords Supper, and declared that they would never accept "Papistical idolatries."

On execution day, the Roman Catholic teacher Franois Picard challenged the condemned men about their beliefs regarding the Lords Supper. They answered by questioning him about the Catholic teaching of transubstantiation, which claims that the bread and the wine used during that observance change miraculously into Jesus flesh and blood. Does the bread, the condemned men asked, taste like meat? Or the wine like blood?

Despite the lack of response, the 14 were tied to stakes and burned alive. The ones who had not had their tongues removed sang psalms. Priests who stood around the execution site attempted to drown them out by singing louder than they did. The next day, on the same spot, Picard proclaimed that the 14 were condemned to hell forever.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102 ... =1:0-24:77

In another recent thread there was much discussion about how Christianity can inspire hatred. Here we find another clear answer that it does. We also find that when the topic of "Hated Believers" is discussed, we shouldn't be surprised if we find that it is other believers practicing hate.


Tcg