Should church leaders be vetted more than they are?

[nobspeople]

An article (see below) kicked off a thought: Should church leaders be (better) vetted before being offered a leadership role in a church or religious organization?

Independent of denomination, power intoxicates some. With power often times comes influence and, more to many peoples' liking, money. It's no surprise that churches can be ca$h cows. The bigger the church, many times, the more money it brings in. We've most all seen church pastors/leaders with private jets, Bentleys and so on. People like doctors often times can't afford such things. A quote from the article: "Caldwell used about $900,000 he received from the scheme to maintain his lifestyle and pay down credit cards and mortgages, according to the Justice Department. Caldwell has a masters degree from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania and had worked in the financial industry."

I've said it before and will say it again: religion is the oldest profession in human history IMO. And these mega-church leaders show, if it's not the oldest, it's one of the most profitable.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-megach ... 06983.html

The above made mad me TBH

For discussion, should potential church leaders be further vetted prior to being offered the position? And should a degree in business be enough for them to become a church leader?

[Overcomer]

That whole health and wealth gospel is an American thing. That's where it originated and, sadly, I see it spilling into Canada although there are only a handful of televangelists here who fit the mold. The Prosperity Gospel isn't Biblical. It's just one example where people have twisted Scripture to make it fit their beliefs and desires. Nor do we have many "megachurches" here like those in the States.

I don't know how ministers/pastors are vetted in the States, but I have sat on a church "hunt for a pastor" team here and I can't even begin to tell you how much work is involved in finding the right person. There is a lot of research that goes into it and I can't imagine picking someone who hadn't been trained properly as a minister at a legitimate seminary. That doesn't guarantee you won't get a lemon, of course, but at least you know that they have a grounding in Biblical studies and theology that nobody gets outside of school.

Of course, I'm talking about mainline churches. There are independent ones that spring up. I can't speak to the training their leaders have or don't have.

Being a pastor is a calling from God, but it's true that there are people who take on the position for their own selfish reasons that have nothing to do with serving God and others. Some do indeed use it as a money-making enterprise. They will have to answer to God for that at some point.

[nobspeople]

That whole health and wealth gospel is an American thing. That's where it originated and, sadly, I see it spilling into Canada although there are only a handful of televangelists here who fit the mold. The Prosperity Gospel isn't Biblical. It's just one example where people have twisted Scripture to make it fit their beliefs and desires. Nor do we have many "megachurches" here like those in the States.

I don't know how ministers/pastors are vetted in the States, but I have sat on a church "hunt for a pastor" team here and I can't even begin to tell you how much work is involved in finding the right person. There is a lot of research that goes into it and I can't imagine picking someone who hadn't been trained properly as a minister at a legitimate seminary. That doesn't guarantee you won't get a lemon, of course, but at least you know that they have a grounding in Biblical studies and theology that nobody gets outside of school.

Of course, I'm talking about mainline churches. There are independent ones that spring up. I can't speak to the training their leaders have or don't have.

Being a pastor is a calling from God, but it's true that there are people who take on the position for their own selfish reasons that have nothing to do with serving God and others. Some do indeed use it as a money-making enterprise. They will have to answer to God for that at some point.

Thank you for the response. I don't know much about what is looked for when it comes time to get a new church leaders minister preacher whatever. But I would hope a church organization wouldn't consider a financial or business degree only, fitting for a position such pastor preacher et al. Unless, of course, that money somehow makes its way to the board that makes the decision I suppose.

I do personally know of a mega-church pastor from Venezuela (they call him - not sure if he would qualify in the USA) so it's made its way to South America a while back as he pays for his oldest daughter (early 40s) and her son (23).

[JehovahsWitness]

For discussion, should potential church leaders be further vetted prior to being offered the position? And should a degree in business be enough for them to become a church leader?

Well as one of Jehovah's Witnesses our organisation follows the biblical model where the qualifications if those in a position of leadership are spiritual not secular (1 Tim 3:1-10)

Jehovah's Witnesses never charge a fee for preaching or teaching, all weddings, funeral services and pastoral visits are conducted free of charge. None of our Ministers are paid a salary for their services.

JW



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[Tcg]

Well as one of Jehovah's Witnesses our organisation follows the biblical model where the qualifications if those in a position of leadership are spiritual not secular (1 Tim 3:1-10)

The following is an example of the results of following what JWs claim is the "biblical model."

Grand jury investigators are dead serious about revealing sexual-abuse cover-ups among Jehovahs Witnesses

The investigator explained that the AGs office was now working on a similar state inquiry, this time focused on the Jehovahs Witnesses. But the agency was unsure of the scope of sexual abuse within the often-misunderstood religion, which was founded in Pittsburgh in the 1870s.

Chase, 52, had been raised a Jehovahs Witness in Corry, a small town in Erie County. In the 1980s, when he was a teenager, Chase said, he was drugged and raped by a man who belonged to his congregation. Decades would pass before Chase understood that their stories were common within Witness communities across the country, but rarely reported to police.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/jehovahs- ... 00214.html

Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Well as one of Jehovah's Witnesses our organisation follows the biblical model where the qualifications if those in a position of leadership are spiritual not secular (1 Tim 3:1-10)

The following is an example of the results of following what JWs claim is the "biblical model."

The model is I believe perfect, the people are not. Happily we have a judicial system that identifies criminals. I am glad such individuals are rooted out of society and punished accordingly thanks to it.

Thank you for sharing, I appreciate your contribution.


JEHOVAHS WITNESES

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... CHILD ABUSE

[Tcg]

The model is I believe perfect...

The model allows sexual abusers to get away with repeated sexual abuse. There's nothing perfect about that.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

The model is I believe perfect...

The model allows sexual abusers to get away with repeated sexual abuse. There's nothing perfect about that.


Tcg

When I say "model" I mean what scripture says should be asked of Christian ministers as stipulates 1 Timothy 3:1-10. And although there is nothing in that biblical model which approves of Christian ministers sexually abuse children , the bible model does rely faithful adherence to bible principles, human decency and a secular policing and enforcement system to ensure the law is respected.

In that sense I suppose yes, you are right it "allows" repeated sexual abuse.



JW




What model do the Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to that governs their ecclesiastical lives?
viewtopic.php?p=1029087#p1029087

Do Jehovah's Witnesses have higher than average instances of child sexual abuse?
viewtopic.php?p=912077#p912077

[Tcg]

In that sense I suppose yes it "allows" repeated sexual abuse.

As we have seen time and time in the news, this model allows sexual abuse. Glad to see you admit that the model your branch of Christianity holds to does so.

It's a shame that neither this admission not the repeated news reports will lead to any change to protect the innocent.


Tcg

[Difflugia]

For discussion, should potential church leaders be further vetted prior to being offered the position? And should a degree in business be enough for them to become a church leader?

What criteria do you want to use? Is being more invested in the career path an indication of integrity?

A modern church's financial success is dependent entirely on voluntary donations. How do you find someone that's a charismatic enough salesman to lead a financially successful church, while also being convinced that they're sincere and honest? I'm not saying they don't exist or even that the majority of pastors are other than honest, but the skillsets required for "convince people to give your organization money" and "confidence man" share more than a bit of overlap.

Anyone who's never seen it should watch the documentary Marjoe.