#1 Jesus on hell

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”

Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

[Tcg]

Interesting thing is though, that is exactly what some angels wanted. Genesis 6:1,2
So apparently they can gain a physical body. Yet that doesn't mean they had both at the same time.

There is no mention in Gen. 6:1-2 of angels gaining physical bodies. Nor is there any mention of them having spiritual bodies. This passage doesn't describe bodies of any kind.


Tcg

[myth-one.com]

So I guess if there is a spiritual body there isn't always a physical body.

Why would a spiritual bodied being ever desire to also have a physical body?

Interesting thing is though, that is exactly what some angels wanted. Genesis 6:1,2
So apparently they can gain a physical body. Yet that doesn't mean they had both at the same time.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (Genesis 6:1-2)

These "sons of God" cannot be angels because angels do not take wives.

Speaking of Christians when they become angels in the Kingdom of God, Jesus states:

For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)

Marriage provides procreation of the human race. In the Kingdom of God everyone lives forever, and thus there is no need for marriage. So there is no marriage of angels.

These "men of God" may have been descendants of the Godly line of Seth -- as they began to intermarry with the "daughters of men" (women from the ungodly family line of Cain).

Yes, it is interesting.

We are told how spiritual beings are produced. They are born of the Spirit (God the Father) -- That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I don't think there can be a hybrid natural/spiritual bodied being because all spiritual beings are born of God without any other partner required.

But spirits apparently do have power over the physical world, and can take on many temporary physical world forms.

If an angel took on the form of my beautiful wife, and we had children would they be humans, spirits, or mixed?

My guess is that angels cannot reproduce themselves at all, because God created them as asexual -- thus my wife is not an angel as she bore children.

Oh well, she's still an angel to me. (OK, PinSeeker -- not literally)

[2timothy316]

Interesting thing is though, that is exactly what some angels wanted. Genesis 6:1,2
So apparently they can gain a physical body. Yet that doesn't mean they had both at the same time.

There is no mention in Gen. 6:1-2 of angels gaining physical bodies. Nor is there any mention of them having spiritual bodies. This passage doesn't describe bodies of any kind.


Tcg

So how did angels marry and have sex with the human women to make nephilim? As spirits? As men? Please, explain this.

[2timothy316]

So I guess if there is a spiritual body there isn't always a physical body.

Why would a spiritual bodied being ever desire to also have a physical body?

Interesting thing is though, that is exactly what some angels wanted. Genesis 6:1,2
So apparently they can gain a physical body. Yet that doesn't mean they had both at the same time.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (Genesis 6:1-2)

These "sons of God" cannot be angels because angels do not take wives.

So explain the nephilim. What makes them different?
Explain son of man and explain son of God.

[2timothy316]

These "men of God" may have been descendants of the Godly line of Seth -- as they began to intermarry with the "daughters of men" (women from the ungodly family line of Cain).

Where is this in the Bible that Seth had some special power. Explain where you learned all of this?

[myth-one.com]

These "men of God" may have been descendants of the Godly line of Seth -- as they began to intermarry with the "daughters of men" (women from the ungodly family line of Cain).

Where is this in the Bible that Seth had some special power. Explain where you learned all of this?

I don't know that Seth had some special power.

The "men of God" were definitely not angels because angels do not take wives according to Jesus.

I read the explanation involving Seth and Cain in The International Version Full Life Study Bible.

[2timothy316]

These "men of God" may have been descendants of the Godly line of Seth -- as they began to intermarry with the "daughters of men" (women from the ungodly family line of Cain).

Where is this in the Bible that Seth had some special power. Explain where you learned all of this?

I don't know that Seth had some special power.

The "men of God" were definitely not angels because angels do not take wives according to Jesus.

I read the explanation involving Seth and Cain in The International Version Full Life Study Bible.

Then why are the Nephilim described as mighty ones and giants? What made them so special to have such descriptions? When the Hebrews scouted Canaan, they said that Nephilim were there and that was considered to a 'bad report'. If the Nephilim were from a Godly line, shouldn't have that been a good report?
https://biblehub.com/genesis/6-4.htm
https://biblehub.com/numbers/13-33.htm

In verse 2 why did the 'sons of the True God' or a line of Seth, suddenly see the daughters of men beautiful and start taking wives after mankind started grow in number? How can there be descendants at all if they had never had wives before?
https://biblehub.com/genesis/6-2.htm

If these were Godly men, then why was only Noah and his family the only ones saved at the flood?

1 Peter 3:19,20 says, "And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." Compare 2 Peter 2:4,5. "Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people."
Who are these disobedient angels that Peter is writing about and why are they punished along with ungodly people in Noah's day?

Also, while you're correct that Jesus said that angels do not have wives, could that rule exist because of what happened in Noah's day? Or that rule always existed but some angels were, as Peter said, "disobedient" to that rule?

What Biblical evidence is there that the Sons of the True God were from the line of Seth?

Sounds like a new thread needs to be made.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38538

[PinSeeker]

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Yes, the body -- one and the same body -- can be natural or spiritual... of a carnal nature (of the world) or of the spiritual nature (of the Spirit). As I have been saying.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

But the person has the same body, regardless of either.

Do you see any one-to-one relationship there?

In this life, for us Christians, it can actually be one to two. One body, two natures. The old man (self) and the new man (self), as Paul puts it:

• "...assuming that you have heard about Him and were taught in Him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." (Ephesians 4:22-24)

Look close.

Grace and peace to you.

[onewithhim]

How can it be, then, that God, who has no body, made us in His image and likeness, yet with and in a body?

That's a good question, Checkpoint. I've said quite a bit in past posts about it, but there, I'll just say that it must something different (a lot different) and more (a whole lot more) than that our heads and arms and legs are like His. I'll just leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

God made humans in his image in that we have the same attributes that he has---love, power, wisdom and justice. Man has qualities reflecting those of his Maker, qualities that positively distinguish man from the animal creation.

[PinSeeker]

God made humans in his image in that we have the same attributes that he has---love, power, wisdom and justice. Man has qualities reflecting those of his Maker, qualities that positively distinguish man from the animal creation.

Well, yes and no. The word 'reflecting' is very important in your assertion, as I think you agree; we are yet sinners (whereas God, of course, is not), and that means everything about us is tainted with sin. One day this will no longer be the case.

Grace and peace to all.