Without Jesus, I'm Nothing

[SallyF]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

[William]

Why should an atheist care whether such claim is reasonable or not, unless atheists are saying it is unreasonable? In which case, atheism is teaching [through atheists], that it is an unreasonable claim.

[Bradskii]

So therefore atheism teaches we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

If I said that science teaches us that we aren't anything that fairies would be interested in, then you'd suggest (I sincerely hope) that I'd just made a nonsenscial statement.

[William]

If I said that science teaches us that we aren't anything that fairies would be interested in, then you'd suggest (I sincerely hope) that I'd just made a nonsenscial statement.

My comments are directed at the claim that atheism doesn't teach we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

Science doesn't teach us that. Atheists teach us that.

Atheists teach that it is unreasonable for Christians to state that they are "nothing without Jesus" and the reasoning behind this teaching seems to be, because atheists lack belief in gods.

[William]

DP

[Bradskii]

If I said that science teaches us that we aren't anything that fairies would be interested in, then you'd suggest (I sincerely hope) that I'd just made a nonsenscial statement.

...the claim that atheism doesn't teach we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

Atheists teach that it is unreasonable for Christians to state that they are "nothing without Jesus".

We'll leave aside the fact that atheism doesn't 'teach' anything. I'll change the first sentence to a positive one and we'll look at the two together.

Atheism teaches:

1. That we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.
2. That it is unreasonable for Christians to state that they are "nothing without Jesus".

Those two points are not the same. The first is nonsensical and the second is simply an opinion on value and may be valid whether the person putting forward that opinion believes in God or not.

[Tcg]

[Replying to SallyF in post #1]

Here's an article that addresses a similar topic to that of the OP:

Being Nothing Without God

Without God you would have no life at all. Outside of Christ there is no reality. There is no logic. There is no reason for anything. Everything was made for Christ. Your next breath comes from Christ and is to go back to Christ.

We must fully depend on Jesus, without Him we have nothing, but with Him we have everything. When you don’t have Christ you have no power over sin, Satan, and you don’t truly have life.

https://biblereasons.com/being-nothing-without-god/

Of course it is clear that the author confuses God, Christ, and Jesus. Speaking of each as if they were all the same. The OP addresses specifically Jesus, not God as some have tried to do here. Once again, the OP asks this question related to the claim that, "Without Jesus, I'm nothing." The OP question asks, "Is this a reasonable Christian claim?"

Does this article address the OP question? Has anyone yet addressed the OP question?


Tcg

[nobspeople]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

I've found, when it comes to belief, 'reasonable' is highly subjective. For many christians, this would hold true (definitely the ones I know personally).
It seems, in order to elevate another (jesus, in this case) it helps to belittle others (ones self, in this case). You see it many times when christians interact with others - particularly people of other religions more so than people that aren't religious: belittle them to feel superior.
So is it a reasonable claim? When someone makes this statement, I'm offended for them, but they don't likely care as they find it totally reasonable and true in every sense of the word.

[Clownboat]

I am unsure what your concern is.

I've made it exceedingly clear. You made this flawed claim:

According to atheism, we are 'nothing' in the same way as how I think this expression is being used.

Atheism does not teach that we are "nothing." Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg

So therefore atheism teaches we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

I have no idea where this conclusion came from or is based on. Nothing I've presented would lead to this conclusion, in fact the opposite. As I have clearly stated previously, atheism has no teachings which of course includes the one you've invented here. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.

The OP addresses this saying:



Apparently the concept is so popular that folks are making money by selling apparel with this slogan. The question from the OP remains, "Is this a reasonable Christian claim?" Strawmanning atheism does nothing to answer it.


Tcg

You must first be convinced that you are sick before you will buy the medicine.
Convincing people that they are sick/nothing when you have the cure/Jesus is one such con going on in the world.

It's only reasonable in so much as that it works on many. Tricking people for profit surely isn't kind though.

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #38]

If one is convinced it is reasonable for one to seek the assistence one thinks one requires, what is that to another?

That another's opinion is that fraudulence is happening, and thus the choices are unreasonable, can one show others why one has every reason to claim the idea is unreasonable?

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #38]

Tricking people for profit surely isn't kind though.

Humans are apparently not naturally inclined to kindness. Those who want to be kind and turn to Jesus [and all the variants that this implies] may see it as taking advantage of what is on offer, and atheism is not about being kind, so finding help from atheists re that, would be an unreasonable expectation.

Sure, charging greatly inflated prices for medicine, is not kind either. It is unreasonable to expect atheism to be a platform for protest, against such unkind practice.

So where do individuals who find no remedy for their natural unkindness turn to for - if nothing else - at least a semblance of kindness, if atheism can't help them?

And what business is it of atheism, if folk turn to Jesus?

And what is unkind/unreasonable about the notion that a declaration is heard from some Christians, that they ONCE thought of themselves as "nothing" and it was this discovery of something [in their case - "Jesus"] which lifted them from those doldrums?

Why - if atheism has no vested interest in the phrase - do atheists make it their personal business to say such is "unreasonable"? How is that reasonable?

If lack of belief in gods prompts from ya'll - kindness - is it reasonable for folk to assume kindness can be learned through atheism?

I see not enough evidence to make such assumption.

But if it works for you, why belittle other ways in which it works for other folk? How is that reasonable?