Is atheism lacking?

[historia]

This is an oft made point on this forum, but one I want to explore in a bit more depth:

If you don't believe that God exists, then that itself is a belief.

I lack belief in god/gods. Lack of belief is quite clearly not a belief.

I think we can all appreciate the case where a person might be ignorant of a particular topic and thus have no beliefs about it. That seems straight-forward.

But, if a person previously believed in X but now no longer believes in X, while spending time on an online forum debating X, it seems less straight-forward (to me anyway) to say that they simply "lack" belief in X. Even if that person is merely contending that there is insufficient evidence (for them, at least) to believe in X, surely we must conclude that constitutes a belief about X.


Question for debate: Is it accurate to say that atheists debating the existence of God on an online forum lack belief in God (or gods), or is there a more accurate way to describe their beliefs vis-a-vis God (or gods)?

[brunumb]

Where does atheism lead, besides death?

Atheism doesn't lead to death. Death is a natural part of the cycle that involves living things. All living things eventually die. None of them ever come back. It is the end regardless of what fantasy one believes.

Since you seem ambivalent in what you believe or not believe, maybe you should wait until you jump into a fox hole to make the final decision, and just call yourself an agnostic.

Not ambivalent at all. Are you suggesting that in some crisis I will suddenly become a believer and implore your God to help me? Too funny. The indoctrination didn't stick with me and it ain't coming back.

[Tcg]

Since you seem ambivalent in what you believe or not believe, maybe you should wait until you jump into a fox hole to make the final decision, and just call yourself an agnostic.

As I have documented many times, those who are dying in a foxhole cry out for their mothers, not for god/gods. Of course, I have no idea what this has to do with being agnostic. Those soldiers knew their mothers existed. The same can't be said of god/gods.


Tcg

[Tcg]

Atheism branches away from Agnosticism in the direction that argues it is true that we do not exist within a creation.

No. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. It makes no assertion about whether or not we exist in a creation. I don't understand why this astonishingly straightforward reality is so often misunderstood and misrepresented.


Tcg

[Tcg]

Not ambivalent at all. Are you suggesting that in some crisis I will suddenly become a believer and implore your God to help me? Too funny. The indoctrination didn't stick with me and it ain't coming back.

Indeed. Once you see the man, or really many men, behind the curtain there is no turning back.




Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

Is it just me, or do so many theists have some imperative to declare for atheists what the atheist must, or does believe?

The only belief I put on theists is that they believe a god or gods exist. Only when they make further claims regarding such do I ever put other beliefs on em.

Atheism.
A- non
Theism- belief in a god or gods

Why do so many theist deny this fact? Why can't so many theists even understand this fact?

I'm an atheist. I don't believe a god or gods exist. That's the end of that.

There are though, beliefs I hold related to the positive claims of theism. Such as theism being a comfort mechanism, or a way to explain the unknown and unknowable. But I could hold these beliefs and still be a theist. I could in theory, understand that my belief is purely cosmetic. Like how I believe the pretty thing loves me cause I'm worthy of it, and not cause I do whatever she says whenever she says it, and how high am I to jump.

I can only conclude so many theists feel this need to put beliefs on atheists cause they simply can't fathom that someone doesn't believe in their fairy tales.

And don't it beat all, that's further evidence their concluders're as faulty as a wrong wired switch.


What if I said theists believe pedophiling's a good thing? Would that be right? Would that be fair to declare their beliefs for em?

This whole argument reads to me like an attempt to impugn the integrity of atheists - "Naw, y'all believe this thing ya don't, and ya either won't fess to it, or are too dumb to know it" is the result of a broken, uncompromising, and frankly insulting mindset.

Here's the deal, quit with the declaring for atheists what they believe, and us atheists won't set to calling all y'all theists a bunch of pedophiles.

[Tcg]

Is it just me, or do so many theists have some imperative to declare for atheists what the atheist must, or does believe?

Yes, in fact this thread was created based on the declaration of a theist assigning a belief to me an atheist.

If you don't believe that God exists, then that itself is a belief.

If one follows that thread, they'll find another belief assigned to me. Neither have I claimed and yet one theist assigned it to me and another in this thread is attempting to show the assignment is valid. One has to wonder why both these theists feel a need to put words in my mouth. I suppose if one can't support their own position a Straw Man is a tempting retort.




Tcg

[William]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #95]

Is it just me, or do so many theists have some imperative to declare for atheists what the atheist must, or does believe?

The confusion arises in part whereby folk calling themselves atheists make statements which are not always simply coming from 'lacking belief in god'.

[William]

Atheism branches away from Agnosticism in the direction that argues it is true that we do not exist within a creation.

No. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. It makes no assertion about whether or not we exist in a creation. I don't understand why this astonishingly straightforward reality is so often misunderstood and misrepresented.


Tcg

I never said Atheism did make assertions. Sometimes folk calling themselves 'atheists' make assertions which have nothing to do with the atheist position. That cause some folk confusion.

[Tcg]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #95]

Is it just me, or do so many theists have some imperative to declare for atheists what the atheist must, or does believe?

The confusion arises in part whereby folk calling themselves atheists make statements which are not always simply coming from 'lacking belief in god'.

Nope. That just represents the fact that atheism is nothing but the lack of belief in god/gods. Of course, those who lack belief in god/gods will have different opinions about other matters. It's no different from the fact that those who accept the perfectly unverifiable claim that god/gods exist agree on almost no other issues.


Tcg

[Tcg]

Atheism branches away from Agnosticism in the direction that argues it is true that we do not exist within a creation.

No. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. It makes no assertion about whether or not we exist in a creation. I don't understand why this astonishingly straightforward reality is so often misunderstood and misrepresented.


Tcg

I never said Atheism did make assertions. Sometimes folk calling themselves 'atheists' make assertions which have nothing to do with the atheist position. That cause some folk confusion.

Are you really asserting that atheism "argues it is true that we do not exist within a creation." is not a claim that atheism makes an assertion?

There is no reason to capitalize atheism or to put the word atheists in quotes. Talk about causing confusion.


Tcg