Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1947]
I don't understand your reasoning on First-Fruits.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christ is the first fruits.

Christians (those that are Christ's) will be resurrected afterward.

If Christ is the first fruits, and Christians are later at the Second Coming, then how can Christians also be the first fruits?

It's no big deal.

[FaithWillDo]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1951]

Yes, Christ is the First Fruits and He was first to be resurrected. However, those who are saved in this age are also called First Fruits because they are "in Christ" and they share in His First Fruit status as the verses I posted say.

Do you know that Christ is the FIRST and the LAST?

Everything about this creation is about Christ. He does all the work and is the only one who is righteous (excepting the Father from whom Christ's righteousness comes from). We must be "in Christ" to share in His righteousness and through Him, we become children of God.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

To be saved, we must be in the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ is the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 14:17-18 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Christ in the flesh is also the Spirit of Truth who "dwelleth with you" and when Christ baptizes us with His Spirit, it is Christ who "shall be in you". Christ and the Spirit are inseparable and once we are saved, we too will be inseparable with the Spirit.

The Kingdom of Heaven (Christ) comes to us as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is not a third member of a trinity (which I know you understand). The Spirit is God the Father's Spirit which He gave to Christ and who in turn, gives to us.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

It is the Spirit which makes Christ one with the Father and once Christ gives it to us, we are one with Christ and the Father. The Spirit is what makes us God's children and is how God will someday be "all in all". For now, we see through a glass darkly on this subject but someday, we will have a full knowledge of God and will have a full understanding of how His Spirit makes us one with Him.

Though things in this world look bad most of the time, mankind's future is bright and glorious because of the work of Christ.
Joe

[JehovahsWitness]

It was never His intention for humans to live in a physical world forever.

GENESIS 2:17

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”

If God said Adam would die if he ate from the forbidden tree, how long would he have lived if he had never eaten from it?

[FaithWillDo]

It was never His intention for humans to live in a physical world forever.

GENESIS 2:17

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”

If God said Adam would die if he ate from the forbidden tree, how long would he have lived if he had never eaten from it?

Dear JehovahsWitness,
Death only entered the world after Adam's sin, therefore Adam would have lived forever if He had not sinned. However, it was not God's intention for Adam to live forever in the flesh. As I pointed out earlier, nothing happens in this creation that God does not cause to happen. Mankind's "will" never overcomes God's "will". Mankind does not have a "free will".

Look closer at these verses:

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

The evil in this world was given to us by God. God is the cause of all things.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

God's plan for creating His children includes our learning about good and evil. To accomplish this goal, God made us "subject to vanity" and spiritually "marred". Adam and Eve never had any ability within themselves to not sin.

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul didn't hesitate when he said this:

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

God's pattern for this creation is for the physical to come before the spiritual. We are born with a physical body, we are given a physical Word of God and when Christ first came to mankind, He came in the flesh. Next mankind will have a spiritual body, the Word of God will be written in our hearts (that's spiritual) and Christ will appear spiritually (within) to us. Since God never makes mistakes or changes His plan, we can know that this pattern was His intention from the very beginning. Nothing happens by chance - not even our salvation. We are saved not because it is our "will" to be saved, we are saved because it is God's "will" to save us:

John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So when the Word of God says that Christ will save all mankind, He means it and it will be testified to be true in due time:

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

[JehovahsWitness]

... Adam would have lived forever if He had not sinned. However, it was not God's intention for Adam to live forever in the flesh.

The only way for a human to NOT live forever in the flesh is to die

1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.

If Adam had not sinned he would have not DIED. If Adam had not died he would have lived forever in the flesh.

QUESTION: Do you think God wanted Adam to sin or did God want Adam not to sin?

[FaithWillDo]

... Adam would have lived forever if He had not sinned. However, it was not God's intention for Adam to live forever in the flesh.

The only way for a human to NOT live forever in the flesh is to die

1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.

If Adam had not sinned he would have not DIED. If Adam had not died he would have lived forever in the flesh.

QUESTION: Do you think God wanted Adam to sin or did God want Adam not to sin?

Dear JehovahsWitness,
I have already answered your question. God absolutely wanted Adam to sin and God caused it to happen. Nothing happens in this creation that God does not cause. He is God and is the cause of "all things", even the evil in the world. Scripture clearly states this truth over and over again. It is only the traditions of men that teaches mankind has a "free will" and that man's free will can supersede God's "will".

The "man of sin" taught by Christ and Paul is a worsened spiritual state that happens when a called out believer is deceived by Satan. Satan's deception happens to everyone who is called out from the world because they remain spiritually blind after being called out. We all must travel the same path that leads to Christ and salvation and a portion of that path includes being deceived by Satan and "falling away".

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Here is what Paul says about this worsen spiritual state (man of sin) and how it relates to the false Doctrine of Free Will:

2The 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The "temple of God" is mankind who have received the Early Rain of the Spirit. But under Satan's deceptions, a worsen spiritual state develops and they elevate themselves to the level of God by their false Doctrine of Free Will. Once a believer accepts this doctrine, they believe they are saved because of their own work of accepting Christ as their Lord. They believe they are smarter, wiser or simply less evil than those who reject Christ and for that reason, they believe the unbelievers are worthy of eternal hell (another false doctrine). These two beliefs (Free Will and Hell) blaspheme the name of Christ in this world. Christ is all powerful, loving and merciful and will do all that is necessary to convert every person who has ever lived from being a child of the devil to being a child of God. He loves us all that much, even to the point He was willing to die on the cross for us. He is not the monster who is presented by orthodox Christianity.

The Gospel of Christ (the Good News) is that Christ is going to reconcile mankind to God the Father. It is 100% His work. His work began at the cross and will be completed when He "appears" to each individual person to convert them with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If they have been chosen to be saved in this age, they are considered blessed and will be heirs of the promise and First Fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. If they are not chosen, they will die in their sins and be resurrected to judgment. But when their judgment is complete, they too will be made into a child of God. That is the true Good News of Christ.

Joe

[JehovahsWitness]

DID GOD WANT ADAM TO SIN AND DIE?

1 JONN 3:4 - New Living Translation

Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God

GENESIS 2:16, 17

And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

God absolutely wanted Adam to sin and God caused it to happen.

JAMES 1:13 - English Standard Version

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

[FaithWillDo]

God absolutely wanted Adam to sin and God caused it to happen.

JAMES 1:13 - English Standard Version

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Dear JehovahsWitness,
God never tempts anyone as the scripture says. Our carnal natures do the tempting (along with Satan). But of course, God created us this way and is responsible for our carnal nature tempting us. At the consummation of the ages, God will have destroyed all mankind's carnal nature:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Mankind was created in a physical body. It is this body that gives us a carnal nature which tempts us. We give into its temptation because we are spiritually "marred". Christ came in the same physical body but He never gave in to the temptation of His flesh because He was spiritually perfect (full measure of the Holy Spirit). Once we are converted and resurrected with a spiritual body, our carnal natures will be destroyed and will never tempt us again.

Joe

[FaithWillDo]

Dear JehovahsWitness,
I forgot to comment of these verses you posted:
1 JONN 3:4 - NLT Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God

GENESIS 2:16, 17 And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Yes, God gives us the law and warns us to not break the Law. This fact does not address the truth of whether or not God wanted us to break the law.

Adam and Eve were created spiritually marred and subject to vanity. Because of these weaknesses, our physical bodies quickly control us and make us carnally minded. To expose this flawed condition to us, God gave us the law. Without the law, sin is not imputed so the giving of the law was necessary to expose our flawed spiritual condition.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound...

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Once mankind realizes we cannot stop breaking the law, this knowledge will lead us to Christ who will do the required work of correcting our spiritual flaws.

These reasons are why God gave Adam the law of not eating from the tree. It wasn't so that Adam would not eat from it. It was so that Adam's sinful nature would be exposed.

So why did God make us with a sinful nature (spiritually marred)? It is because He is birthing new children who He wants to be like Him. To be like Him, we must have a knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God's plan of producing His offspring is perfect and like physical child birth, it is a painful experience for both the mother (Christ) and the child (mankind). God wants us to experience evil so that we can know His goodness. Without that experience, we would be lacking and would not be the children He wants.

Joe

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1938]

Dear JehovahsWitness,
As for what scripture says will happen to the earth in the future, I do not know of any verses that specifically reveal its future. However, the earth is physical and the physical will no longer be needed for children of God who will have spiritual bodies after they are resurrected. The physical world is for carnal mankind which will cease to exist someday.
Joe

That is a very interesting idea, and speaks of someone's vivid imagination.

The Bible is clear that the earth will remain forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4; Psalm 37:29). It is also clear that God's original purpose was for physical humans to live on the physical planet and do so forever. Adam and Eve would still be here if they had not rebelled. Were they supposed to eventually go to heaven?? Has God changed His mind about humans living on the earth forever? Why would you think that everyone will eventually be spirits? What would be the point of creating physical humans that are supposed to become spirits? Wouldn't He just create everyone as spirit people?

There was no "carnal mankind" on the earth when Adam was created. You say the earth is for carnal mankind, but Adam wasn't created as "carnal," which is a word for "profane" or sinful. He was created sinless, and he willfully rebelled against God, only then becoming carnal. It is God's purpose for mankind and the earth to be together forever, and this will certainly come to fruition. The scripture even says that it will be the righteous that live forever on the earth, and not the carnal. (Psalm 37:10,11,29)

Isaiah 45:18

Dear JehovahsWitness,
You said:
The Bible is clear that the earth will remain forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4; Psalm 37:29).

As I stated earlier, the Hebrew word "olam" should be translated as "age". An "age" of time can never mean forever. This is an example of translator bias.


Joe

I don't think that word is used at Psalm 37:10,11,29. Because it doesn't make any sense to say, "The meek shall inherit the AGE and find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace," or, "The righteous shall inherit the AGE and live on it forever." You are in error there. These verses refer to the actual earth.

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