The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #321]
The Millennium IS a period of rest. There will be no demons bothering us and only wonderful things will be happening. At the end, however, there will be what the scriptures call the White Throne judgment where Jehovah Himself will judge all those who have come to the end of the Millennium and will give their decision as to whether or not they will serve Jehovah. Many will go with Satan, but that will not affect the last 1,000 years that were total peace. Do you not remember the verses that say that at the end of the thousand years Satan will be let loose again? That doesn't mar what was already righteously accomplished during the Millennium.
.

The following is what the Holy Scriptures states as to the fate of all mankind, believers and nonbelievers:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human (believer or nonbeliever) who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was the first to be resurrected:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all deceased Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Jesus and the resurrected Christians in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The “rest of the dead” are all nonbelievers as all deceased and living believers were born again as spiritual beings at the Second Coming.

All nonbelievers (those resurrected as humans after the thousand years and all living at that time) will then face the great white throne judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the judgment of nonbelievers, whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those nonbelievers resurrected at the second resurrection or living at that time had their names written in the book of life prior to their judgment! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection.

From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the thousand year millennium, as they have no preachers:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life had been cleared. All inheritors had received their rewards. After the Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

The only possible reason to check the book again after the judgment, is to see if any names were written into the book during the great white throne judgment.

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States, as the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time of the end these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Upon hearing the good news that Jesus will offer them His inheritance of everlasting life, many should believe in Jesus and their names will be written in the Book of life.

That is why the Book of Life is checked again after the judgment, to see if any new names had been added.

Your first error was quoting the false prophet Paul as your proof. His message was the same as the serpent, in that you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:4), but he said we will not all sleep, which is a euphemism for you will not die. Everyone will die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30). Paul died, and his listeners all died. That puts him in the category of a false prophet, in whom you should not fear (Deuteronomy 18:22). As for "Christians", thinking that they have eternal life for believing what the demons know, it doesn't work that way. They are simply following the wide path laid out by the false prophets of Matthew 7:13, along with being deceived by the "beast with two horns like a lamb" (Revelation 13:14), the Roman emperor Constantine, along with his two Christ like leaders in whom he built his Roman church on, Peter and Paul, the two shepherds of Zechariah 11:7. And for those carrying the mark of the beast, one of whom is Constantine, will remain in their graves during the millennium (Revelation 20:4). As for the righteous rising from their graves, those without the mark of the beast, they will reign along with the righteous branch of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6) on earth, in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16), and the king will be among the reunited elements of the whole house of Israel, the "stick of Judah", the Jews, and the "stick of Ephraim" (Ezekiel 37:19-28), "forever". Your Gentile/nations "Christians" are none other than the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), who were bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver for "many days" (Hosea 3). During the millennium, the gentiles/nations will keep their own gods (Micah 4:3-5), while being under the leadership of the king who is Jerusalem, but they will worship the "king" once a year, in Jerusalem on the feast of Booths (Zechariah 14:16).

Jeremiah 23:5,6
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth…

Micah 4:3 Then He will judge between many peoples and arbitrate for strong nations far and wide. Then they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer take up the sword against nation, nor will they train anymore for war. 4And each man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree, with no one to frighten him. For the mouth of the LORD of Hosts has spoken. 5Though each of the peoples may walk in the name of his god, yet we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.…

[onewithhim]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

Hopefully all people that have been following this thread will themselves go to the links that have been proved by JehovahsWitness and tigger and 2timothy. It makes perfect sense, combined with all other Scripture.

Supplying links does not constitute any type of proof. Anyone with a basic Scriptural or historical understanding can discount the JW claims on their own.

It was supposed to say, "go to the links that have been PROVIDED by JW and tigger and 2timothy." I don't know how that got messed up.

And anyone who has a DEEP Scriptural understanding can COUNT ON what JWs claim.

I don't know what DEEP stands for, but it apparently is without any historical reference. Great Britain is not the last beast. The global currency has switched from the British pound to the U.S. dollar, and the greatest navy in terms of strength, is the US navy, not the British navy. The JW kingdom of God has not crushed any nation or nations, and the latest information I read, say their numbers are dwindling despite any protests from the JWs. They seem more interested in investing in property and stocks than feeding the poor, and in actuality, if you are not a JW, and a Samaritan instead, you get no charity (bread or water) according to JW policy. I don't know, that sounds like the slave who whipped his fellow slaves and was cast into the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:49-51). Just saying. I wouldn't touch that religion with a 10-foot pole. But then again, I wouldn't touch any religion with a 10-foot pole, although some are less bad than others. The less bad will probably have members who crawl out of the great tribulation but will currently have to deal with the plagues of the daughters of Babylon (Revelation 18:4).

I have never said that Great Britain is the final beast......it is the DUAL power of the United States and Britain, and yes the U.S. is becoming weaker (as Great Britain has become) as time passes as we can see in the news with these administrations, so the time for God's Kingdom to take over is very near. The feet of the immense image of Daniel chapter 2 stand for the United States /Great Britain alliance, the final power. It gets destroyed by the stone, or, the Kingdom of God by Christ. So we know that all of men's governments are soon to be crushed out of existence.

Your unkind statements about JWs not caring about others is unnecessary. It is not true. JWs help mightily during nature's upsets---non-JWs as well. And we say that it is not any MEN who will crush worldly governments, it is God Himself who will do that and set up the Kingdom ruled by His Son.

Our numbers are not dwindling. They have been maintaining at about 8 1/2 million. We realize there are many who turn away, but then there are many who get baptized, so for now the numbers stay at around that number.

.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #321]
The Millennium IS a period of rest. There will be no demons bothering us and only wonderful things will be happening. At the end, however, there will be what the scriptures call the White Throne judgment where Jehovah Himself will judge all those who have come to the end of the Millennium and will give their decision as to whether or not they will serve Jehovah. Many will go with Satan, but that will not affect the last 1,000 years that were total peace. Do you not remember the verses that say that at the end of the thousand years Satan will be let loose again? That doesn't mar what was already righteously accomplished during the Millennium.
.

The following is what the Holy Scriptures states as to the fate of all mankind, believers and nonbelievers:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human (believer or nonbeliever) who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was the first to be resurrected:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all deceased Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Jesus and the resurrected Christians in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The “rest of the dead” are all nonbelievers as all deceased and living believers were born again as spiritual beings at the Second Coming.

All nonbelievers (those resurrected as humans after the thousand years and all living at that time) will then face the great white throne judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the judgment of nonbelievers, whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those nonbelievers resurrected at the second resurrection or living at that time had their names written in the book of life prior to their judgment! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection.

From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the thousand year millennium, as they have no preachers:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life had been cleared. All inheritors had received their rewards. After the Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

The only possible reason to check the book again after the judgment, is to see if any names were written into the book during the great white throne judgment.

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States, as the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time of the end these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Upon hearing the good news that Jesus will offer them His inheritance of everlasting life, many should believe in Jesus and their names will be written in the Book of life.

That is why the Book of Life is checked again after the judgment, to see if any new names had been added.

Your first error was quoting the false prophet Paul as your proof. His message was the same as the serpent, in that you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:4), but he said we will not all sleep, which is a euphemism for you will not die.

The serpent's message was "Ye shall not surely die."

Paul wrote "as in Adam all die."

Those are opposing statements -- not the same!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #333]
Paul Was a false prophet, eh? Do you reject the book of Acts that shows Paul to be hand-picked by Jesus?

When he said "we will not all sleep," he was referring to the last days when there will be some anointed (those going to heaven) still alive and on Earth before the Great Tribulation breaks out. When he said "as in Adam all die" he was speaking of the condition of all mankind.....because Adam sinned he passed along sin and death to all his progeny.

.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #333
The serpent's message was "Ye shall not surely die."

Paul wrote "as in Adam all die."

Those are opposing statements -- not the same!

Paul Was a false prophet, eh? Do you reject the book of Acts that shows Paul to be hand-picked by Jesus?
]

Paul wrote "we shall not all sleep", "sleep" be the euphemism for die. Paul and his listeners all slept, making him a false prophet, one you should not fear. And as Paul was the leaven of the Pharisee, his double minded hypocritical statements were all over the place. The last supper shows that one should eat the bread of life without the leaven of the Pharisees. The "book of Acts" written by some unknown author, had two stories about Paul being picked by an angel of light, and they didn't agree with each other. Per Paul, an angel of light is Satan. Per Yeshua, the message of the devil will be mixed with the message of the son of man in the same field/book (Matthew 13). Paul was one of two shepherds actually chosen by the LORD to "pasture the flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). As with many circumstances, the LORD uses both the devil and the beasts to bring things into fruition. Nebuchadnezzar was used to bring judgment upon Judah. The LORD uses demons of the devil and the beast and false prophet to bring the nations down upon Jerusalem (Revelation 16:13-16 & Joel 3:1-2).

1 Corinthians 15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #333]
Paul Was a false prophet, eh? Do you reject the book of Acts that shows Paul to be hand-picked by Jesus?

When he said "we will not all sleep," he was referring to the last days when there will be some anointed (those going to heaven) still alive and on Earth before the Great Tribulation breaks out. When he said "as in Adam all die" he was speaking of the condition of all mankind.....because Adam sinned he passed along sin and death to all his progeny.
.

Paul believed that "we shall not all sleep/die", with respect to the crowd he was speaking too. As for the "end of the age", it is the "tares", the lawless, which will be gathered out "first" and burnt, and then the wheat will be put into the barn (Matthew 13:30). Your rapture theory was promulgated around the 17th century in England. The appearance of the son of man, follows immediately after the "tribulation" (Matthew 24:29).

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #333]
Paul Was a false prophet, eh? Do you reject the book of Acts that shows Paul to be hand-picked by Jesus?

When he said "we will not all sleep," he was referring to the last days when there will be some anointed (those going to heaven) still alive and on Earth before the Great Tribulation breaks out. When he said "as in Adam all die" he was speaking of the condition of all mankind.....because Adam sinned he passed along sin and death to all his progeny.

.

You have me seriously confused with 2ndpillar2.

Paul is my favorite biblical author.

When Paul wrote "we will not all sleep," he is referring to those Christians who are alive at the Second Coming.

They will be changed instantly into spiritual beings without "sleeping" in any grave.

[JehovahsWitness]

Great Britain is not the last beast.

What "last beast" are you referring to here ? (Scriptural reference please)

[2ndpillar2]

Great Britain is not the last beast.

What "last beast" are you referring to here ? (Scriptural reference please)

I am referring to the pictorial a JW had on their message showing Britain as part of the last beast. If the JW "kingdom" was set up in 1914, after all the kingdoms had been crushed according to (Daniel 2:45), according to the JWs, who is the last beast? The "last beast" according to Revelation 17:11, is the 8th head of the beast, one of the previous heads prior to the 6th head, when Revelation 17:10 was written. Here is a chance for you to explain in plain language and not just more pictures. Pictures are nice if they reflect reality, but none of yours appear to have a good grasp on Scripture or history. Maybe you could explain the 8 heads of the beast of Revelation 17:11, and how you think the JWs are in some kind of power with respect to actual Scripture, such as Ezekiel 34 & 37, or Zechariah 14, or Isaiah 14:1-2, or Revelation 19:15, or Joel 3:1-2, and Micah 4:1-13.

Micah 4: 1And it will come about in the last days
That the mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains.
It will be raised above the hills,
And the peoples will stream to it.

2Many nations will come and say,
“Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD
And to the house of the God of Jacob,
That He may teach us about His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For from Zion will go forth the law,
Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

3And He will judge between many peoples
And render decisions for mighty, distant nations.
Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they train for war.

4Each of them will sit under his vine
And under his fig tree,
With no one to make them afraid,
For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

5Though all the peoples walk
Each in the name of his god,
As for us, we will walk
In the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

6“In that day,” declares the LORD,
“I will assemble the lame
And gather the outcasts,
Even those whom I have afflicted.

7“I will make the lame a remnant
And the outcasts a strong nation,
And the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion
From now on and forever.

8“As for you, tower of the flock,
Hill of the daughter of Zion,
To you it will come—
Even the former dominion will come,
The kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem.

9“Now, why do you cry out loudly?
Is there no king among you,
Or has your counselor perished,
That agony has gripped you like a woman in childbirth?

10“Writhe and labor to give birth,
Daughter of Zion,
Like a woman in childbirth;
For now you will go out of the city,
Dwell in the field,
And go to Babylon.
There you will be rescued;
There the LORD will redeem you
From the hand of your enemies.

11“And now many nations have been assembled against you
Who say, ‘Let her be polluted,
And let our eyes gloat over Zion.’

12“But they do not know the thoughts of the LORD,
And they do not understand His purpose;
For He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor.

13“Arise and thresh, daughter of Zion,
For your horn I will make iron
And your hoofs I will make bronze,
That you may pulverize many peoples,
That you may devote to the LORD their unjust gain
And their wealth to the Lord of all the earth.

[JehovahsWitness]

Great Britain is not the last beast.

What "last beast" are you referring to here ? (Scriptural reference please)

I am referring to the pictorial a JW had on their message showing Britain as part of the last beast.

Do you have a link ? (I very much doubt I used the expression "last beast")

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES