Why Was Satan . . .

[Miles]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

I clearly disagree with you on this point.




Adam clearly stated the facts. There is no statement in the Bible that he blamed Eve. Your response is simply your added "private interpretation".

Adam had the choice of remaining alone in the garden and failing to multiply and replenishing the first commandment given to them.

Adam's other choice was to follow Eve's choice and likewise become mortal in order to fulfill the Lords commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

One must also recognize that among other things this also fulfilled the plan of God,s eternal plan of salvation and set in full operation and fulfillment of the need for the atonement to be provided by Jesus Christ who was foreordained to this very mission before the foundations of the world were even laid as clearly shown in the scriptures

Mortality was clearly part and parcel of the foreordained plan of redemption for mankind which could only be provided by Jesus the Christ.

If you disagree with any part of the above let's see you prove otherwise.

Best regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

Dear JW,

I clearly disagree with you on this point.

Couldn't care less.

If you disagree with any part of the above let's see you prove otherwise.

I already have.
viewtopic.php?p=1065330#p1065330

[JehovahsWitness]

Adam had the choice of remaining alone in the garden and failing to multiply and replenishing the first commandment given to them.

There is no passage in the bible that says the words "Adam would have remained alone in the garden failing to multiply ". That is simply your added "private interpretation".


JW

[William]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

The story is convenient to the survival of the Christian religion - and probably all the Abrahamic religions.

I think humans created both, and these function as analogies of good and evil acts which humans have identified from their own kind, and extended that onto the rest of nature, essentially creating the problem of evil and having an effigy that they can point at and blame as a separate entity to their own fantasy of god.

[tam]

Peace to you,

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

I'm not sure I understand the question. How do you give someone power to tempt someone else? Doesn't anyone have the power to tempt another person?

[Miles]

Peace to you,

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Consider: How could any of god's angelic creatures go against his love and divine power unless they were given the ability to do so? Wouldn't all of god's creations have been created perfect? Of course they would have. So . . . in as much as Satan was a good guy to begin with he must have been corrupted. And who was the only dude around who could corrupt an angel? God, of course. And why would god go to all the trouble of doing this to Satan? As I figure it, god needed to keep his hands clean while he infected mankind with sin---god only knows WHY.* So Satan became god's henchman, carrying out god's dirty work while god sat in his throne smiling down on his two newly created creatures, A&E, and watching Satan, in the guise of a snake no less, tempt them into sinning, and consequently infecting all of humanity to follow.

How do you give someone power to tempt someone else?

No being privy to god's methods, you'd have to ask him.

Doesn't anyone have the power to tempt another person?

Absolutely, but only because we're sinful creatures, or so I'm told.


*Actually, I suspect he had grown bored with the universe---who wouldn't after spending an eternity watching stars pop into existence only to explode and disappear, over and over again. So he created mankind, rabbits, grizzly bears, poison ivy, and such as entertainment. And what better entertainment then a world filled with conflict, something engendering sin, and disease, and love, and hate, and jealousy, and war, and nakid wimen, and . . . .


.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #46]

Yes, all of God's intelligent creatures were given the ability to tempt and be tempted.....otherwise they would all be automatons. Each individual can CHOOSE to go against what is right or to remain faithful. End of story.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #46]

Yes, all of God's intelligent creatures were given the ability to tempt and be tempted.....otherwise they would all be automatons. Each individual can CHOOSE to go against what is right or to remain faithful. End of story.

Doesn't make sense why they would be automatons just because they weren't given the ability to tempt and be tempted. Are tempting and being tempted the be-all and end-all to avoid being an automaton?


.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Consider: How could any of god's angelic creatures go against his love and divine power unless they were given the ability to do so?

They are free beings.

Wouldn't all of god's creations have been created perfect? Of course they would have. So . . . in as much as Satan was a good guy to begin with he must have been corrupted. And who was the only dude around who could corrupt an angel? God, of course.

Satan corrupted himself.

From Ezekiel 28:


“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13
You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14
You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16
Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17
Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18
By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19
All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”


He corrupted himself. Taking his eyes off the copper serpent (Christ) whom he is meant to serve and to protect, and turning his eyes toward himself instead, admiring himself, his own beauty, becoming proud, thinking that he deserved what was being offered to us (man), and became our Adversary. Even though he was supposed to be a guardian (a guardian cherub in the garden of eden). Instead he made himself our enemy.

He corrupted himself.

Doesn't anyone have the power to tempt another person?

Absolutely, but only because we're sinful creatures, or so I'm told.

Why would having the power - or rather the ability - to tempt others be dependent upon whether a person is sinful or not? If a person is free, a person can choose what to do with that freedom.


Peace again to you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #46]

Yes, all of God's intelligent creatures were given the ability to tempt and be tempted.....otherwise they would all be automatons. Each individual can CHOOSE to go against what is right or to remain faithful. End of story.

Doesn't make sense why they would be automatons just because they weren't given the ability to tempt and be tempted. Are tempting and being tempted the be-all and end-all to avoid being an automaton?


.

You know that they're not, of course. Why split hairs?