Christianity in your mind's eye

[historia]

Christianity is one of the world's largest and most diverse religious traditions.

And yet, for brevity's sake, it's convenient to make reference to 'Christianity' or 'Christians' on this forum without having to reel off a litany of qualifiers about which particular churches, beliefs, and practices we are describing. But do we all have the same thing in mind when we do this?

Consider these comments from a couple of our friendly neighborhood atheists:

Take mainstream Catholic teaching, remove Mary, mother of God stuff, remove Papal authority. That's my working assumption of what Christianity is

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that says they're Christian is Christian, but pretending that the Catholics are anything but the standard for orthodoxy is chutzpah.

Questions for debate:

When making reference to 'Christianity' in general terms, should we all have in mind Roman Catholicism (or something close to that)?

Is that, in fact, the expression of Christianity you have in your mind when you personally use the term 'Christianity'?

[Tcg]

we see that in a certain sense there is no one Christianity at least not a single unified group.

Tcg,this is true, and yet, bringing everyone together into one single unified group is what the NT and Christianity were all about. We're not supposed to be divided. It was originally one faith in one God and one word/law: love others as yourself.

Paul's letters to various early churches reveal a very different picture:

Helmut Koester:

John H. Morison Professor of New Testament Studies and Winn Professor of Ecclesiastical History Harvard Divinity School

DIVERSITY IN EARLY CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES

Paul's conversion as an apostle to the gentiles may date as early as three years after Jesus' death. No later than the year 35, but probably already 32 or 33.... He was in Damascus when he was called, according to his own witness. So we have, already, within two years or three or five years, of Jesus' death probably Greek speaking communities outside of Palestine, very early in Antioch, but we have also the founding of communities in Samaria.... We have apparently more isolated Christian communities founded very early in Galilee. Paul's mission carried Christianity all the way over Asia Minor, present Turkey into Macedonia, into Greece, within 20 years. And at the end of that period, Paul already knows that there's a Christian community in Rome which he has not founded.

With this explosive spread of Christian churches, not a very slow moderate growth, getting a few new members every few years, but an explosive spread of this movement, it cannot be expected that everywhere, everybody was doing and believing the same thing, singing the same hymns and reading the same scriptures and telling the same story. So we have a beginning with great diversity, and the slow process, particularly in the second century, to establish a greater unity among the very diverse churches. Already a process in Paul's churches themselves, because that's why Paul writes letters, because he wants to make sure that these newly converted Christians in Ephesus and Philippi and Thessaloniki and in Corinth have some unanimity in their beliefs. And his work is made even more difficult because once he had left Corinth, some people came to Corinth and told them, "Really Paul has not told you enough of the deep wisdom of the words of Jesus. Those you have to contemplate in order to learn the wisdom that comes from Jesus," and Paul has to write back and say, "Now, I taught you nothing but Christ crucified, not Christ wisdom." So you get a conflict of different traditions also at a very early stage.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... rsity.html

Tcg

[historia]

As this is the forum (option a from above), I have to assume the basics as: god had a son named jesus that is a sacrifice to humanity; jesus died and rose again. Assuming they believe more than that opens up a whole can o' worms that I, for you, don't care to open.

I appreciate that point, especially since a disproportionate number of Christians on this forum hold heterodox views.

But, apart from this forum or any kind of debate, when you personally think about Christianity, do you picture it as just being this really basic, minimal set of beliefs? Or do you picture it differently?

[cms]

Paul's letters to various early churches reveal a very different picture:

Tcg, There were problems with various traditions entering in, but they were instructed to "teach no other doctrine." And " If any man teach otherwise and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, from such withdraw yourself."

"Owe no one anything except to love one another. For he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the (ten) commandments are all summed up in this saying: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Where a church baptizes with water, true entrance to Christianity is through Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13
"For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit."

Theophile, Again, I agree. And actually, this is what Israel was supposed to be all about in the beginning as well.

[William]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

When I refer to Christianity or Christians I have in mind religious theists who believe in a particular set of mythologies but do not all agree to the particulars.

I do not take these beliefs to be 'The Truth' and when Christians claim that it is, I understand this to mean they believe their beliefs are The Truth, rather than their beliefs are actually The Truth.

Generally if someone tells me they are a Christian, I immediate assume that they cannot be trusted, and this is due to a lifetime of near on 60 years of interaction with them.

However, this in no way reflects any negative thoughts about the idea of Biblical God or Jesus as I deal with those aspects separately and do not seek Christian counsel regarding those subjects, preferring use other methods to connect with The Creator other than what the Christians say...

[Tcg]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Any view of Christianity that doesn't include both this:



And this:



Is incomplete.


Tcg

[1213]

....
When making reference to 'Christianity' in general terms, should we all have in mind Roman Catholicism (or something close to that)?

Is that, in fact, the expression of Christianity you have in your mind when you personally use the term 'Christianity'?

In Bible Christian means a disciple of Jesus.

…in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

And disciple of Jesus is defined as:

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

That is why I think Christianity should be defined as people who remain in words of Jesus.

[brunumb]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Any view of Christianity that doesn't include both this:



And this:



Is incomplete.


Tcg

Perhaps a synthesis of snakes and funny hats would help:

[historia]

I really have in mind a belief in the basics of the Bible, (Faith in Jesus as Saviour from sins, effectively)

Nor is it a matter of membership in a specific group or belief-system. Rather it's a matter of being in the Spirit (whether you know it or not).

In my mind, Christianity = Jesus, a person who loved others as himself.

My question for those who offered this type of a response: Do you do the same thing for other religions?

When you picture Islam, for example, do you think it's just a belief in the basics of the Quran, or a matter of remembrance of Allah, or 'Islam = Muhammed'?

[Eloi]

I personally perceive a difference between the terms christianity, christianism, christendom. It is like trying to answer the question What is a Jew?. The answer depends on what are you thinking; Beliefs, community, race, origen, last name, tradition, country, ... ?

The term "Jew" in Rev. 3:9 would not be understood by a follower of Jesus Christ as it would be understood by a traditional Jew in the first century. In the same way the term "Christian" should not be understood in the same way that it would be understood traditionally. Jesus showed that the Jewish traditions of his time had given a distorted picture of the law of Moses. Likewise today, traditional practices and beliefs have seriously distorted the true teachings of Jesus and true beliefs that are recorded in the Scriptures.

[theophile]

I really have in mind a belief in the basics of the Bible, (Faith in Jesus as Saviour from sins, effectively)

Nor is it a matter of membership in a specific group or belief-system. Rather it's a matter of being in the Spirit (whether you know it or not).

In my mind, Christianity = Jesus, a person who loved others as himself.

My question for those who offered this type of a response: Do you do the same thing for other religions?

When you picture Islam, for example, do you think it's just a belief in the basics of the Quran, or a matter of remembrance of Allah, or 'Islam = Muhammed'? Or do you picture other religions differently than Christianity?

Before answering the question, I think there is an opposition in the responses you bundled here. I don't think Christianity (or any religion for that matter) is a matter of belief if belief means intellectual assent to a set of basic propositions (e.g., Jesus saved us all from sin). Belief / faith should be thought of more in terms of relational fidelity. It's about faithfulness to a cause or way, what I before called 'Spirit', which is evinced through who we are and what we do.

While believing something to be true may help us achieve this union and fidelity, such a belief is neither necessary nor sufficient in itself (to be called Christian, Muslim, or anything else).

So to that end, yes, I think other religions are the same, and as a result may in fact share a lot of common ground. A Buddhist is a Buddhist not because they believe in the four noble truths but because of how they comport themselves in the world (whether based on such a belief or not). Some days I may very well (and rightly) pass for a Buddhist, just as a practicing Buddhist may very well be in the Spirit.