MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION to be answered

[Avoice]

Paul said that the scriptures say Jesus died according to the scriptures
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT?
Paul says Jesus was buried and rose again on the third day ACCORDING to the scriptures.
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT?

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, UNLESS YE HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES

[theophile]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Why is that the most important question? I haven't studied this, but a quick research yielded a reasonable solution. Common belief (feel free to pressure test) was that bodily decay began on the third day after death. And Psalm 16 verse 10 promises that God will not let their holy one "see decay."

Hence, Jesus must be resurrected by the third day.

EDIT: From Google, the human body starts to smell after death within 1-3 days.

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm wondering where he 'received it. From the apostles/disciples?Or from Jesus in the Third heaven when he paid a visit (If I read the passage correctly)? Or out of his own head?

Because I believe that Jesus was put on the cross and I must suppose he died, otherwise the disciples wouldn't have got the idea that he resurrected (1). But Paul has to argue out the idea of dying for sins, like it's his own interpretation. It doesn't read to me like he was just repeating what the disciples had told him.

I know that's all debatable, but just my take on the passage.


(1) unless the resurrection if it was was of the spirit, rather than the body, left the body that was still alive...but that's a stretch I admit.

[TRANSPONDER]

Whilechecking where the quote camefrom I found this:

In 1 Cor, when Paul is laying out the the tradition of the resurrection to his readers, he lays out a tradition with his own testimony at the end.

1Cr 15:3-8 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. [NASU]

However, there is no quotation in Old Testament that the Messiah would be raised on the third day. This, then, must be an example of midrash, something applied to the Messiah that on the surface speaks of something else.

I think this aspect should be discussed.

Is Paul lying? Is he telling his Corinthians something that isn't true because all that matters is that they believe what they are being told? Or is it Paul interpreting the OT to suit himself? If so, unless some Bible apologist can show this passage convincingly in the OT, they must at least show something that could be interpreted to relate to a resurrection after the third day.

Now, something that occurs to me is the Jewish idea that the dead resurrect like Jonah did after three days in the whale. This would be a totally far - fetched suggestion were it not that I recall the tomb with a sarcophagus or bone - box apparently had a carving (or graffiti) of Jonah appearing from a large fish, the idea being that this symbolised resurrection. Now as I recall there was a flurry of interest because the names of the dead sounded a lot like Jesus' family. That connection being quietly dropped we are left with a possible connection between the OT as a 3 day resurrection.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Why is that the most important question? I haven't studied this, but a quick research yielded a reasonable solution. Common belief (feel free to pressure test) was that bodily decay began on the third day after death. And Psalm 16 verse 10 promises that God will not let their holy one "see decay."

The holy one being spoken of is David the author of this Psalm. This is clear when context is established:

Psalm 16:

8 I have set the Lord always before me;
because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices;
my flesh also dwells secure.
10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

<bolding mine>

Hence, Jesus must be resurrected by the third day.

As I've demonstrated the passage is about David not Jesus.

EDIT: From Google, the human body starts to smell after death within 1-3 days.

If that is the case, then Jesus would have to be resurrected on the first day to assure no decay.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

p.s Aantonio Lombatti commented (found online) on the Talpiot B tomb

Observations on the “Jonah” Iconography on the Ossuary of Talpiot B Tomb
Considering the recurrence of the fish iconography in Jewish tombs and burial artifacts, it can be stated that it had a symbolic meaning for the Jews of the period, and was adopted by the Christians. In the Hellenistic and Roman times, there was a certain tendency to relate fish or fish-like images to immortality.

This could be the 'scriptural' reference Paul was hinting at. The implication is obvious - the Gospels being back - engineered from Paul's teachings (and prejudices) the Resurrection stories could have been constructed (and constructed they were) around this scriptural 3 day requirement. Even though the supposed time Jesus spent in the tomb requires a lot of interpretation to make it 3 days as he was only in the tomb last thing Friday (1) "You have only five minutes remaining! Never mind the spices, get him on the slab Now!!"

Then the Sabbath until evening Saturday and the half Sunday until awn. That's not even TWO days. But you can wangle Friday to Sunday as three days.

(1) The new Jewish day began at twilight.

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES THE HEBREWS BIBLE PROPHECY ABOUT THE DEATH OF THE PROMISED MESSIAH?


The Apostle Paul wrote that "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor 15:3) according does not mean he is making a direct quotation, but rather he Paul believed that Jesus' death was in line / in harmony with [certain] scriptural passages. Which scriptures might Paul have been applying to Jesus death?

PSALMS 22:15

My strength has dried up like a piece of pottery; my tongue sticks to my gums; You are bringing me down to the dust of death

ISAIAH 53:8, 12

..For he was cut off from the land of the living ...because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people ...

DOES THE HEBREWS BIBLE PROPHECY ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF THE PROMISED MESSIAH?

Jesus himself is recorded as applying the account of the Prother Jonah to himself. We often refer to such as a "prophetic drama", where the real life actions or experiences of the Hebrews, are taken in a metaphoric sense to provide a prophetic pattern for later events. Paul then likely had the following passages in mind when he spoke about Jesus resurrection being "according to scripture"

JONAH 1:17

Jehovah now sent a huge fish to swallow Jonah, so that Jonah came to be in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights.

PSALMS 16:10

For you will not leave me in the Grave....

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[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Why is that the most important question? I haven't studied this, but a quick research yielded a reasonable solution. Common belief (feel free to pressure test) was that bodily decay began on the third day after death. And Psalm 16 verse 10 promises that God will not let their holy one "see decay."

The holy one being spoken of is David the author of this Psalm. This is clear when context is established:

Psalm 16:

8 I have set the Lord always before me;
because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices;
my flesh also dwells secure.
10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

<bolding mine>

Hence, Jesus must be resurrected by the third day.

As I've demonstrated the passage is about David not Jesus.

EDIT: From Google, the human body starts to smell after death within 1-3 days.

If that is the case, then Jesus would have to be resurrected on the first day to assure no decay.


Tcg

Aside David being the 'Holy One' (I thought that was God) the problem here is that the 3 days resurrection - limit is for practical,not scriptural,reasons.Thus the '3 days is not scriptural, even if resurrection is, and we only have to go to Daniel for the hints of resurrected zealot heroes as stars in the sky.

[TRANSPONDER]

DOES THE HEBREWS BIBLE PROPHECY ABOUT THE DEATH LE THE PROMISED MESSIAH?


The Apostle Paul wrote that "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor 15:3) according does not mean he is making a direct quotation, but rather that his death was in line / in harmony with [certain] scriptural passages. Which scriptures might Paul have been applying to Jesus death?

PSALMS 22:15

My strength has dried up like a piece of pottery; my tongue sticks to my gums; You are bringing me down to the dust of death

ISAIAH 53:8, 12

..For he was cut off from the land of the living ...because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people ...

I'm quite sure that dying for sins is Not a Jewish scriptural derivation, though of course we have other things dying for transgressions, the example of Isaac where a human sacrifice would have been done if God hadn't stopped it, or indeed plenty of people being killed by God some transgression or other. That said, I'm sure that this idea is Paul's own brainwave, even if the 3 day resurrection is scriptural.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Why is that the most important question? I haven't studied this, but a quick research yielded a reasonable solution. Common belief (feel free to pressure test) was that bodily decay began on the third day after death. And Psalm 16 verse 10 promises that God will not let their holy one "see decay."

The holy one being spoken of is David the author of this Psalm. This is clear when context is established:

Psalm 16:

8 I have set the Lord always before me;
because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices;
my flesh also dwells secure.
10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

<bolding mine>

Hence, Jesus must be resurrected by the third day.

As I've demonstrated the passage is about David not Jesus.

EDIT: From Google, the human body starts to smell after death within 1-3 days.

If that is the case, then Jesus would have to be resurrected on the first day to assure no decay.


Tcg

Aside David being the 'Holy One' (I thought that was God) the problem here is that the 3 days resurrection - limit is for practical,not scriptural,reasons.Thus the '3 days is not scriptural, even if resurrection is, and we only have to go to Daniel for the hints of resurrected zealot heroes as stars in the sky.

In the Psalms God is referred to as "the Holy One of Israel." There are two references to a group as either the "council of" or the "assembly of" the "holy ones." David was referring to himself as one of these "holy ones."


Tcg