I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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Tcg
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I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

Do theists (some that is perhaps not all) have any reason beyond this to mistrust atheists?

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Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #31

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:56 pm
Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:46 pm
Given that I may misunderstand your "teaching", please explain the origin of god, or YHWH or whatever name it is you use to describe this being you claim you would question the "intellectual capacity" of someone to believe in.


Tcg
I cannot explain the origins of God since I do not believe God has any origins.

JW
Ah, yes. Special pleading. How unique.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #32

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:10 am
Ah, yes. Special pleading. How unique.
Can you prove your claim of special pleading?

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #33

Post by Difflugia »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:37 amCan you prove your claim of special pleading?
We don't need to because you have.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:07 amI have to question the intellectual capacity of someone that believes something can come from nothing
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:56 pmI cannot explain the origins of God since I do not believe God has any origins.
Q.E.D
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Difflugia wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:48 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:37 amCan you prove your claim of special pleading?
We don't need to because you have.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:07 amI have to question the intellectual capacity of someone that believes something can come from nothing
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:56 pmI cannot explain the origins of God since I do not believe God has any origins.
Q.E.D
The above does not equates to special pleading. Perhaps you can explain why you believe it is.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #35

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:19 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:19 am
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism is any less dangerous in the hands of atheists than it is in the hands of theists.
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism has anything to do with either theism or atheism. Perhaps if you get around to, we can discuss you comment further.
So now you're questioning the assertion that dogmatism is a real phenomenon?

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #36

Post by TRANSPONDER »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:52 am
Difflugia wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:48 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:37 amCan you prove your claim of special pleading?
We don't need to because you have.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:07 amI have to question the intellectual capacity of someone that believes something can come from nothing
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:56 pmI cannot explain the origins of God since I do not believe God has any origins.
Q.E.D
The above does not equates to special pleading. Perhaps you can explain why you believe it is.
The argument for special pleading is that ( I presume) you have asked the old (irrelevant) question of Cosmic origins. The response to an admission that we (atheists) have no explanation is that God must be the answer.

If we ask about God's origins, you will say He hasn't any. This is special pleading because you think the question about origins of the universe doesn't apply to God.

But it should, because nothing supposedly comes from nothing and claiming a god that didn't come from any origin is counter - intuitive. It is not a logical argument to appeal to the Bible or traditional claims of God being eternal. It makes no sense to posit a complex intelligent being with no origin.

You wouldn't accept a claim that the basic stuff of the universe (from which the BB event collated) had always existed without origin, so why should it be different for the origins of God? To say otherwise is special pleading.

Now, you may say it doesn't apply in your view, but can you at least see that it is is a logically valid objection for someone who doesn't just accept religious claims?

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #37

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 am
Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:19 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:19 am
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism is any less dangerous in the hands of atheists than it is in the hands of theists.
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism has anything to do with either theism or atheism. Perhaps if you get around to, we can discuss you comment further.
So now you're questioning the assertion that dogmatism is a real phenomenon?
Nope. Just waiting for you to support that it has anything to do with either atheism or theism. I explained this clearly previously. Not sure why I have to explain it again.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #38

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:50 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 am
Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:19 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:19 am
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism is any less dangerous in the hands of atheists than it is in the hands of theists.
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism has anything to do with either theism or atheism. Perhaps if you get around to, we can discuss you comment further.
So now you're questioning the assertion that dogmatism is a real phenomenon?
Nope. Just waiting for you to support that it has anything to do with either atheism or theism. I explained this clearly previously. Not sure why I have to explain it again.
.......

Over in a thread on Deism, you recently asked me....
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?
....and I responded......
What's the "core tenet" of atheism? Answer my question and you've answered your own.
You never did answer your own question, and you're harping on an answer you want from me?

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #39

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:28 pm
Tcg wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:50 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 am
Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:19 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:19 am
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism is any less dangerous in the hands of atheists than it is in the hands of theists.
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism has anything to do with either theism or atheism. Perhaps if you get around to, we can discuss you comment further.
So now you're questioning the assertion that dogmatism is a real phenomenon?
Nope. Just waiting for you to support that it has anything to do with either atheism or theism. I explained this clearly previously. Not sure why I have to explain it again.
.......

Over in a thread on Deism, you recently asked me....
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?
....and I responded......
What's the "core tenet" of atheism? Answer my question and you've answered your own.
You never did answer your own question, and you're harping on an answer you want from me?


It looks like you are not Getting It. 'core Tenet' (give quotes fair weight) of atheism is non -belief in any gods. The 'Core Tenet or dogmatic belief would thus be belief in a gad. So to repeat the question, what's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet? It seems that by comparing it to the 'core tenet' of atheism, you have restricted your wiggle -room.

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Re: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Post #40

Post by Athetotheist »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:03 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:28 pm
Tcg wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:50 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 am
Tcg wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:19 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:19 am
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism is any less dangerous in the hands of atheists than it is in the hands of theists.
And as I see it, you've failed to illustrate how dogmatism has anything to do with either theism or atheism. Perhaps if you get around to, we can discuss you comment further.
So now you're questioning the assertion that dogmatism is a real phenomenon?
Nope. Just waiting for you to support that it has anything to do with either atheism or theism. I explained this clearly previously. Not sure why I have to explain it again.
.......

Over in a thread on Deism, you recently asked me....
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?
....and I responded......
What's the "core tenet" of atheism? Answer my question and you've answered your own.
You never did answer your own question, and you're harping on an answer you want from me?


It looks like you are not Getting It. 'core Tenet' (give quotes fair weight) of atheism is non -belief in any gods. The 'Core Tenet or dogmatic belief would thus be belief in a gad. So to repeat the question, what's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet? It seems that by comparing it to the 'core tenet' of atheism, you have restricted your wiggle -room.
Okay, since you've jumped in to answer the "core tenet" question, maybe you'll answer the other unanswered question: Since atheism's core tenet of nonbelief in any gods didn't save the Soviet Union from the dogmatic authoritarianism which plagued it, how can atheists be trusted any further with power than theists can?

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