The Central Problem with Christianity

[Diogenes]

Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]

Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.

The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.

__ Matthew 6:19-20

[Diogenes]

Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry.

Jesus is asking people to stop relying on material goods that do rot and spoil and build treasure in heaven. He is not saying don't marry or don't accumulate wealth....

I wrote that Paul advised against marriage, not Jesus.
1 Corinthians 7:
"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry."
[or "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." (NIV footnote) ]

Why do you suppose Paul would advise against marriage? Or against a man having sex with a woman? Is Paul gay? Or, more likely, he thinks the world will end soon and there is urgent work to be done and man should not be distracted by marriage. This only makes sense in the context that the world will soon end. Otherwise, for any group to not have sex = the end of the group in a few generations.

This is one reason the "Shakers" died out. They did not reproduce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers#F ... ond_coming

[JehovahsWitness]

"Why do most Christians marry [...]?

Most Christians that marry probably do so because they wish to and there is no biblical prohibition not to.





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[Wootah]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #31]

Yes but all scripture is God-breathed and backed by Jesus.

I think we all know how big a distraction the opposite sex can be and how much more we can get done without that distraction. I think that is the main reason Paul suggests not getting married. Actually getting married or not reduces that distraction I find.

If a family all became Christian and all their children followed Paul's advice and so that family line had no more children but they spread the gospel and brought many to Christ I don't have a problem with that.

Bear in mind in genesis God said to go forth and multiply and that command applies as well. I think these are general guides.

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #31]

Yes but all scripture is God-breathed and backed by Jesus.

This is an unfounded claim, not an argument.

I think we all know how big a distraction the opposite sex can be and how much more we can get done without that distraction. I think that is the main reason Paul suggests not getting married. Actually getting married or not reduces that distraction I find.

Thank you for your personal opinion. Obviously wife and family can be a distraction. But no movement can perpetuate itself if it dies out due to failure to procreate. Christianity endured because at least in this respect, 99% of his followers ignored 'Paul.'

Bear in mind in genesis God said to go forth and multiply....

Exactly! So 'Paul' is contradicting scripture. The only possible justification for 'Paul' contradicting 'God' is that the end is near; that there is no time to waste because the Great Tribulation is upon him. Poor 'Paul.' 2000 years have passed and proved him wrong.
IF Christians had followed his advice the Christian cult would have died out a generation after 'Paul.'

[oldbadger]

I think God is just patient. We are waiting that all who are meant to come in, have come in.

For I dont desire, brothers, to have you ignorant of this mystery, so that you wont be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,
Romans 11:25

Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; who "will pay back to everyone according to their works:"
Romans 2:4-6

If only Jesus had said this stuff, but he didn't. ..... never would have
That's the problem, Christianity has reversed itself in to the campaign of a Northern working class Jew who (like the Baptist) was outraged by a leadership which had forsaken the old laws in favour of greed, wealth, corruption, foreign culture and lots of hypocrisy. The leaders were not supporting the poor any more, as the old laws required. But this seems to be wasted on Pauline Christians, I'm sad to say.

It's all there in the gospel of Mark, once the Christian edits have been removed.

[JehovahsWitness]

Paul' is contradicting scripture.

This seems to be personal opinion, can you provide evidence that Paul contradicted scripture, I see none.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:28 ESV

But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned

1 TIMOTHY 3:2

The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife ...

1 CORINTHIANS 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





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[Wootah]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #34]

Ultimately the command to reproduce in Genesis is also spiritual. God doesn't want more non-Christians born and going to hell. So the family that had no biological children but many spiritual children do have lots of children.

[Tcg]

Ultimately the command to reproduce in Genesis is also spiritual. God doesn't want more non-Christians born and going to hell.

Don't worry. There is no reason to think that non-Christians will go to hell. There is no reason to think anyone will go to hell or that there is such a place. There is also certainly no reason to think the authors of Genesis had any concept of the much later invention now known as Christianity. Additionally, there is no reason to think that there is a God who would want anything. Oh, and by the way, everyone is born a non-Christian so even if we pretend there is a God who doesn't want more non-Christians to be born, such a God would have to be viewed as a totally incompetent failure.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

Interesting takes on marriange (or sexual relations). Of course many will see this as an evolutionary instinct and something to be understood as such and dealt with rationally, if we can.

Trying to see it from a goddunnit perspective gets into trouble as why would it be good to not go along with an urge that we had been given to ensure we increased, as God assured Abraham's people would do. Even if one argued that sexual desire was a sin resulting from the Fall, God (as seems from the OT,) regarded abstinence from sex (within the rules) as against his commands. But then (wearing my theist hat) I'd argue that Jesus transformed everything and celibacy was part of the New Covenant, though this was not set out in so many words. That was Paul's recommendations, , and only because his Churches had asked for some rulings on marriage, dietary laws and internal disputes.

I think he expected the end times in his lifetime, so hadn't given much thought to these matters, and his replies were intended as short term behavior so as have his converts not to lose 'grace' and were not intended as social rules for a couple of hundred years, let alone 2,000. But that's just my take.

[Diogenes]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #32]
I don't think it would be possible to miss the point more spectacularly than this post does. THE POINT is that the advice to not marry and not be encumbered with possessions is because they thought the world was coming to an end very soon and the only thing they should concentrate on was the end of the world which made every other concern frivolous.

THE POINT is that the central prophesy of Jesus was false. There WAS no apocalypse. The amazing thing is that 2000 years later this obvious baloney is still believed. It's a triumph of tradition over logic.