Spear of Longinus

[vanillamoon]

Okay, there's a thread here about the shroud of Turin. But there's also some 'holy relic' that claims to fit into the whol Jesus story, that's around today. But I don't think it could possibly be from that time either. But I thought maybe there should be a thread about this relic too. So is it authentic, or is it something Hitler whipped up?

[hannahjoy]

What source did you get this from? I've never heard of any "Spear of Longinus" and it's hard to discuss it if I don't know what you're discussing .

[ST88]

What source did you get this from? I've never heard of any "Spear of Longinus" and it's hard to discuss it if I don't know what you're discussing .

The Spear of Longinus (also called the Spear of Destiny) is kind of an extra-biblical legend. According to some historians, the Roman centurion who stabbed Jesus to make sure he was dead was named Longinus, and the blood and water that spilled out actually spilled onto him, altering him (failing eyesight before & could afterwards see, etc.). Longinus supposedly became a holy man after this, and is a bigger figure in the Orthodox Church than in the West.

The spear itself has a long and convoluted history. And although the spearhead that currently is on display in a museum in Austria has never been authenticated as the spear that pierced Jesus's side, it was nevertheless coveted by various figures throughout history as an icon. And, depending on which legend you believe, it could be in other places as well.

Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny
http://ourworld.cs.com/argentprime/spear.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8303/spear.htm
http://sxws.com/charis/relics8.htm

[vanillamoon]

I'm bumping this. I had heard in another thread (which typically I had forgotten which) where someone mentioned that there is no non-biblical proof whatsoever that Jesus even lived. I disagree.

People say that Jesus did not rise again and that's all fair and well if they say that. Understandable. But although the spear hasn't been authenticated it can still stand as a possible proof that Jesus did live. There are other non-biblical sources of Jesus' existance that I am probably forgetting.

[trencacloscas]

But although the spear hasn't been authenticated it can still stand as a possible proof that Jesus did live.

One of the two facts should be proven before they can hold each other.

[vanillamoon]

Why, yes it should. In fact, why doesn't someone authenticate it?

[McCulloch]

Okay, there's a thread here about the shroud of Turin. But there's also some 'holy relic' that claims to fit into the whol Jesus story, that's around today. But I don't think it could possibly be from that time either. But I thought maybe there should be a thread about this relic too. So is it authentic, or is it something Hitler whipped up?

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

We read in the Gospel of St. John (xix, 34), that, after our Saviour's death, "one of the soldiers with a spear [lancea] opened his side and immediately there came out blood and water". Of the weapon thus sanctified nothing is known until the pilgrim St. Antoninus of Piancenza (A.D. 570), describing the holy places of Jerusalem, tells us that he saw in the basilica of Mount Sion "the crown of thorns with which Our Lord was crowned and the lance with which He was struck in the side".

I think that that dating removes the Spear of Longinus from the realm of historical evidence.

[ENIGMA]

Why, yes it should. In fact, why doesn't someone authenticate it?

How would they? Do tell.

[The Nice Centurion]

First I have to tell that history knows not one but two spears of Longinus. Longinus must have had two spears. He supposedly must have stucked bis first spear into Jesus, yet it jammed, and therefore he used his second spear too. Longinus must have carried his reserve-spear attached to his back like a ninja and his Centurion must have been very Nice to allow that extravaganza.

SPEAR ONE was used in 996 by Otto III in his fight against magyars.

SPEAR TWO was unearthed through a miracle by holy men in besieged Antiochia during the first crusade.

http://www.thedevilslance.com/The-Holy-Lance.php

But although the spear hasn't been authenticated it can still stand as a possible proof that Jesus did live.

One of the two facts should be proven before they can hold each other.

The Spear in Vienna has been authenticated as a carolingian wing lance. This is another miracle!

It is one thing to find out that Longinus carried two spears, but now we have proof that Longinus also owned a time machine.

Again: His Centurion must have been very Nice, for allowing a footsoldier to make time travels!