What is ' consciousness ' ?

[Thomas123]

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

[Tcg]

How do you measure the utility of the scientific method? Would you say that a practice that is leading to the gradual destruction of the planet, creating weapons of mass destruction, polluting our water and air, would you argue that this is somehow "better" than simply taking care of what was given to us?

Those are not outcomes of practicing the scientific method. Get a grip Inquirer.

I don't know, with global warming, and the seas a-rising, we might catch up to God on the planet flooding.

But yeah, the scientific methods just a tool. How humans use the results of it is on them.

Not only that, but it's easy to look back now and see the devastation progress has brought. Not so much back then.

"Hey, should we use coal fueled power stations to produce electricity so that we can use lightbulbs rather than kerosene lamps?"

'Sure, gotta to be safer right?'

"Yeah, progress and all that!"

Decades later...

'Hey where did our mountain tops go?'

"Why do miners have black lung?"

'What's this climate change thing?'

To suggest this end result is the fault of the scientific method is an absurdity. It is the result of human's lack of foresight.

Of course, we also see that science haters ain't too proud to use electricity still.


Tcg

[Inquirer]

How do you measure the utility of the scientific method? Would you say that a practice that is leading to the gradual destruction of the planet, creating weapons of mass destruction, polluting our water and air, would you argue that this is somehow "better" than simply taking care of what was given to us?

Those are not outcomes of practicing the scientific method. Get a grip Inquirer.

I don't know, with global warming, and the seas a-rising, we might catch up to God on the planet flooding.

But yeah, the scientific methods just a tool. How humans use the results of it is on them.

Not only that, but it's easy to look back now and see the devastation progress has brought. Not so much back then.

"Hey, should we use coal fueled power stations to produce electricity so that we can use lightbulbs rather than kerosene lamps?"

'Sure, gotta to be safer right?'

"Yeah, progress and all that!"

Decades later...

'Hey where did our mountain tops go?'

"Why do miners have black lung?"

'What's this climate change thing?'

To suggest this end result is the fault of the scientific method is an absurdity. It is the result of human's lack of foresight.

Of course, we also see that science haters ain't too proud to use electricity still.


Tcg

Are you describing me a scientist as a "science hater"? If not, then what is a science hater?

My original (and polite) question has still not been answered:

How do you measure the utility of the scientific method?

If you feel that the pursuit of scientific knowledge has no social costs then why not just say so? I'd be delighted to debate that with you.

[Inquirer]

How do you measure the utility of the scientific method? Would you say that a practice that is leading to the gradual destruction of the planet, creating weapons of mass destruction, polluting our water and air, would you argue that this is somehow "better" than simply taking care of what was given to us?

Those are not outcomes of practicing the scientific method. Get a grip Inquirer.

I don't know, with global warming, and the seas a-rising, we might catch up to God on the planet flooding.

But yeah, the scientific methods just a tool. How humans use the results of it is on them.

So tools have no social costs? they only have social benefits, is that what you are claiming?

[Inquirer]

A brief explanatory note for anyone unware:

Saying that the pursuit of scientific knowledge carries social costs does not constitute a disapproval of science or scientific inquiry.

Cars have a social cost, I drive a car.
Guns have a social cost, I own a gun.

[Diogenes]

[William]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #245]

It is easy to see how the concept of the soul arose before we had any idea of how the brain worked and that physical things like trauma and drug use affected our consciousness

Whoa ! Steady on with the placement of the cart here Diogenes.

A brain soaked in Consciousness is one thing, but follyish to then assume from that, that trauma and drugs "affect our consciousness" when clearly what is being affected is the brain.
It is the brain which is affected and consciousness is wide awake along for the ride.

"Physical things" are just how Human Brains "see" things, and Human Brains don't just look like this;



But more to the actual point, they look like this;



Since Humans and Drugs converged, wherever one is on the Face of the Planet, one has astoundingly similar experiences and those experiences have to do with why theistic beliefs manifested in the early epoch of Human Development...because Human consciousnesses under the influence of drugs which reduced the brains capacity to control 'what one sees' what one see's is done so in the most coherently vividly lucid manner which bypasses any damaged circuitry of the whole brain. Human Brain-Consciousness is undamaged and thus experiences everything in living colour and what is experienced is reported and added to the list of evidence re 'Things of The Mind.

[=276]
Human Brain-Consciousness
Redefinition of the human being
All things created are of the mind
All spun from the same Yarn
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

The focus on the Brain needs to be of secondary importance to the focus on the Consciousness using the brain, otherwise it is 'brain before consciousness/cart before horse follysee...

[Diogenes]

[William]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #247]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

[brunumb]

How do you measure the utility of the scientific method? Would you say that a practice that is leading to the gradual destruction of the planet, creating weapons of mass destruction, polluting our water and air, would you argue that this is somehow "better" than simply taking care of what was given to us?

Those are not outcomes of practicing the scientific method. Get a grip Inquirer.

I don't know, with global warming, and the seas a-rising, we might catch up to God on the planet flooding.

But yeah, the scientific methods just a tool. How humans use the results of it is on them.

So tools have no social costs? they only have social benefits, is that what you are claiming?

So far you have provided no better alternative to the scientific method nor acknowledged that it in itself is not responsible for how the knowledge we gain is used. Readers, like me, must be wondering why.

[otseng]

Get a grip Inquirer.

Moderator Comment

No need to throw in the "get a grip" part.

Please review the Rules.





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