Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

[Tcg]

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The first creation story found in Genesis 1 starts with the creation of the heavens and the earth. Sometime later the sun was reportedly created. Is this possible?

Was there ever a time when the earth existed, and the sun didn't?


Tcg

[brunumb]

Apart from a miniscule amount of matter in the universe the rest is inanimate.....

Exactly what do you mean by that? Is that minuscule amount of matter animate and therefore able to defy the laws of physics? As for the rest being inanimate, so what?

..... and following whatever causal chain.

And yet we defy that chain constantly which is miraculous.

No, we do not defy that causal chain. We are a part of it!

[TRANSPONDER]

There were days mentioned but they seem to represent GOD-days.

I would say that these creations could have taken place in the order they did if they were coding.

The 'day of rest' could account for the complete project up and running, being the simulation we refer to as "The Universe" and, as frequently, "Reality".

Far - fetched 'undisprovables' are no more than opinions. What evidence have you to support any of this? What is a 'GOD -day? What is 'coding' that made an (evidentially) wrong order of creation (in the broader sense - not necessarily and an Intelligent creation) supposedly correct?

God said and God saw (that it was good) could be made to mean anything. It gets you nowhere. We need some decent arguments, not sci - fi fantasies.

Apart from a miniscule amount of matter in the universe the rest is inanimate.....

Exactly what do you mean by that? Is that minuscule amount of matter animate and therefore able to defy the laws of physics? As for the rest being inanimate, so what?

..... and following whatever causal chain.

And yet we defy that chain constantly which is miraculous.

No, we do not defy that causal chain. We are a part of it!

And it is not miraculous, which is to say outside the known workings of physics. Science being able to explain the physics and mechanics of it in the most part (like the mechanics and physics of picking something up and putting it on a table, using levers, muscle power and friction to overcome gravity and inertia) makes it the first choice hypothesis over a postulated invisible being waving a magic wand and saying the magic word "Goddunnit".

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #72]
Then the sun started circling earth!

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #72]
Then the sun started circling earth!

Not according to the science. When it comes down to it, what this is, at bottom, is to accept that Genesis is wrong, or to deny science. There is the business of trying to wangle Genesis to fit science, and then claim that science validated genesis, and the business of science denial means that they cannot rely on science for their case, but the bottom line is that either one accepts the findings of science or they deny it and believe Genesis.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #74]

Bible science too outmoded for ya?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #74]

Bible science too outmoded for ya?

Bible science too debunked, improbable and denialist for me.

I don't even menston, biased, anti -science and dishonest.

[brunumb]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #74]

Bible science too outmoded for ya?

Bible science is an oxymoron.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #74]

Bible science too outmoded for ya?

Bible science is an oxymoron.

I think he was surely kidding anyway, he can't surely believe the sun goes round the earth. What I am confident about is that Ancient cosmology (we see this Egyptian nut stetched out like a canopy over Gen the earth -god, and Babylonian Cosmology envisaged a flat circular earth (there is a clay tablet in the British Museum woith a circular map of the 'known world' and this sky done over it the primordial waters of Tiamat divided into waters above and waters below. This makes perfect sense of the Genesis description including the winds blowing around in the mountain -confined circle, pushing the waters back through the 'fountains of the deep' to the waters below.

i know the believers will deny it and it is Really talking about the cosmology science teaches today, but we already have the red flags - the daylight did not exist before the sun did, and the excuses (the one that ignores that this is stated in the Bible to be day and night shows how little these people read their own Bible) even with the feeble ones suggesting some kind of 'spiritual (not to say metaphorical) light when it is specifically talking of actual supposed events, doesn't inspire trust in these apologists.

Some do give it up and consign Genesis to Myth or at least, Metaphor, and escape what must be denialist Hell, trying to explain away nonsense, while not actually going back to a flat earth and Geocentric system, which would just make them a laughing -stock (so I believe our Nice Centurion is just joking with us), but to dismiss Creation (chapter 1) as Myth is one pillar collapsed and Eden follows, taking Original sin - the entire basis of Bible -theology and the point of the resurrection with it, with Paul attached to the end of the chain, like a dessicated dwarf.



And Exodus isn't looking so much like history anymore, even if one could explain away the parting of the red sea 'naturally'.

[AquinasForGod]

No, because Genesis is not a science book or history book.

I honestly cannot imagine a learned Catholic ever thinking this is problematic. Look this Jewish book says the earth existed before the sun, which wasn't created until day 4. The Catholic goes, hmm, that seems unlikely that any ancient Jew actually thought the earth was literally existing before the sun because they observed that plants relied on the sun. It was why many ancient people worshipped the sun.

He must be trying to say something deeper, but also, he was not a historian or even attempting to write history. He clearly did not fancy himself a scientist.

Wait, you don't take this as the literal word of God and this is exactly how it went down? No. I am a Catholic not one without brains.