Absolute Prohibition of Abortion

[Diogenes]

One question for debate is whether Islam and the Roman Catholic church prohibit abortion in all cases.* They both appear to, even to save the mother's life. The RC view is nuanced, perhaps using disingenuous logic.#

Assuming these two major religions DO prohibit abortion even to save the life of the mother, as well as in the cases of rape and incest, how can this prohibition be morally justified?


_________________
*

"Never and in no case has the Church taught that the life of the child must be preferred to that of the mother. It is erroneous to put the question with this alternative: either the life of the child or that of the mother. No, neither the life of the mother nor that of the child can be subjected to direct suppression. In the one case as in the other, there can be but one obligation: to make every effort to save the lives of both, of the mother and the child." (Pope Pius XII, Allocution to the Association of Large Families, AAS (1951), XLIII, p. 855.)

#

The only ethically justified understanding of this much-celebrated exception shows that it is not an exception at all! The classical example of an ectopic pregnancy or the example of the cancerous uterus, which allow the surgeon, ethically, to remove the woman's damaged reproductive organs in order to save her life, should not be used as examples of abortion, even though a baby's life is terminated in the progress.

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/librar ... ther-12052

[Diogenes]

The Bible was written in a world in which abortion was practiced, yet the Hebrew and Greek equivalents of the word “abortion” do not appear in either the Old or New Testament of the Bible. One would think a god who wrote the Ten Commandments and a host of lesser laws, including how to plant crops and prohibiting the wearing blended fabrics, would have specifically mentioned abortion if it were murder.

Exodus 21 suggests that a pregnant woman’s life is more valuable than the fetus’s. The Jewish faith, as well as many Christian denominations do not have strict views on abortion. The Judaic-Christian tradition does, however, represent a long and persistent history of treating women as subservient and not worthy of full citizenship or rights.
Many evangelicals today continue this tradition of subjugation of women in their extreme views on abortion despite having no Biblical basis for such belief. This is another example of another ancient tradition, using religion to coerce and to support personal views, rather than commandments of God.

Using God to justify personal belief is a form of blasphemy

[JehovahsWitness]

...
This is a zygote:

This is a human


There is nothing in either the Bible or the Koran that claims either a zygote, a blastocyte, or an unquickened fetus is a human being.

If you are going to bring the Bible into it ...

Yes, if we are bringing the bible into it ...


PSALM 139 verse 16

Christian Standard Bible

Your eyes saw me when I was formless; all my days were written in your book and planned before a single one of them began

New International Version

Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

New Living Translation

You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

Biblically God sees the fully developed person (and his or her full potential) before they are fully formed in the womb. There are no zygotes in the eyes of God, every fertilized cell is a person.

New World Translation

Your eyes even saw me as an embryo; All its parts were written in your book. Regarding the days when they were formed, before any of them existed.

Thus abortion is, for the bible believing Christian, the unlawful taking of a human life, aka .... murder



JW





Further Reading: Is it wrong to have an abortion?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... ible-view/


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SEX , ABORTION, BABIES & CHILDREN

[Diogenes]

[JW spam is noted, again]
Sometimes I wonder at the abysmally poor scholarship of some so called "Christians" who fail to understand the Bible. Psalms, of course, is essentially a collection of songs using poetic imagery to celebrate God's special relationship with his chosen people.

Translating גָּלְמִ֤י as "embryo" reveals this lack of scholarship and basic understanding. It also reveals the hopeless bias of those who insist they know God's mind better than 'He' does. This again is nothing short of blasphemy and pride. All of Psalm 139 is poetry. Rather than taken literally, it is a song, full of poetic imagery. "Embryo" is a horrific mistranslation of my גָּלְמִ֤י (ga·le·mi), which is better rendered as "unformed substance." Neither a zygote, a blastocyte, nor an embryo is an "unformed substance." They each have a very specific form.

Psalm 139:16, NIV: Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

Psalm 139:16, ESV: Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

Psalm 139:16, KJV: Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Psalm 139:16, NASB: Your eyes have seen my formless substance; And in Your book were written All the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

Furthermore, if you insist on literal (and poor) translations, then the verse completely obliterates the notion of free will.

Psalm 139:16, NLT:

You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

Psalm 139:16, CSB: Your eyes saw me when I was formless; all my days were written in your book and planned before a single one of them began.

[brunumb]

If a woman uses an abortion as a method of contraception, she is guilty.

Or, someone needs to learn the meaning of contraception.

I know the definition. I take it then you did not understand the concept I presented because the word was used outside the ordinary use? Do you stumble when reading novels for the same reason? Do you stop to email the author to let them know the way they used the word was outside the norm?

All that hand-waving aside, abortion is not a form of contraception.

[AquinasForGod]

If a woman uses an abortion as a method of contraception, she is guilty.

Or, someone needs to learn the meaning of contraception.

I know the definition. I take it then you did not understand the concept I presented because the word was used outside the ordinary use? Do you stumble when reading novels for the same reason? Do you stop to email the author to let them know the way they used the word was outside the norm?

All that hand-waving aside, abortion is not a form of contraception.

Yup. It shouldn't be used that way. Oh, I got pregnant again. Time to go get an abortion.

[brunumb]

If a woman uses an abortion as a method of contraception, she is guilty.

Or, someone needs to learn the meaning of contraception.

I know the definition. I take it then you did not understand the concept I presented because the word was used outside the ordinary use? Do you stumble when reading novels for the same reason? Do you stop to email the author to let them know the way they used the word was outside the norm?

All that hand-waving aside, abortion is not a form of contraception.

Yup. It shouldn't be used that way. Oh, I got pregnant again. Time to go get an abortion.

Nope. Oh, I didn't get pregnant. Contraception.

It doesn't help much that the Roman Catholic Church only allows 'natural' birth control, by which it means only having sex during the infertile period of a woman's monthly cycle. Artificial methods of contraception are banned.

[1213]

Murder is unlawful killing of a human being. If abortion is legal it is not unlawful and therefore not murder. A clump of cells is not a person despite anything you might say to prop up your emotive argument.

Do you think you are more than a clump of cells? Why?

I am, now. ...

Please explain why do you think so?

[brunumb]

Murder is unlawful killing of a human being. If abortion is legal it is not unlawful and therefore not murder. A clump of cells is not a person despite anything you might say to prop up your emotive argument.

Do you think you are more than a clump of cells? Why?

I am, now. ...

Please explain why do you think so?

The cells are now organised into structures we call organs. There is also bone and hair.

[oldbadger]

1) People don't necessarily know what saves the life of the woman.
2) The baby has done nothing to deserve death penalty.

Which country do you live in, please?
If know that then at least I know the law regarding Abortion in your country.

[1213]

Murder is unlawful killing of a human being. If abortion is legal it is not unlawful and therefore not murder. A clump of cells is not a person despite anything you might say to prop up your emotive argument.

Do you think you are more than a clump of cells? Why?

I am, now. ...

Please explain why do you think so?

The cells are now organised into structures we call organs. There is also bone and hair.

Does this mean we can eliminate all bald people, or people who are not fully developed?