A Question Unanswered, When in Church...

[POI]

During the last year or so of attending church, I was still reluctant to ask probing questions for fear of 'rocking the boat'. In the back of each chair were suggestion/question cards, which anyone could fill out and turn in... I asked the same question, about a dozen times, and never received any type of response.

For debate:

Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

[JehovahsWitness]

It is only in the 'world' ruled by Satan, and in America in particular, that racism is branded as the 'great evil'.

Racism is a great evil; it is at the root of much human suffering.


Favoring one nation over another however is not racist any more than a man favoring his wife over all other women is sexist. (Or only paying college tuition for his own children is ageist). Racism is mistreatemeng or denial of someones rights based on their skin colour or nationality; friendship is a privilege not a right. Just as no woman is justified in demaning you have sex with her because you have sex with your wife, God's favoring the descendants of Abraham did not deny other nations their rights.




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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

PREJUDICE , HATE and ...RACIAL UNITY

[RIP]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #41]

Seems Jesus was racist. (Matt. 15:21-28)

Seems God was racist favoring the white folk. (Acts 16:6-10) Thus Europe became Christian from pauper to king.

Racism is an evil only in the 'world' ruled by Satan. And Christians are to cowardly to stand up to it. And so America is going to hell, in color.

Rip

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #41]

Seems Jesus was racist. (Matt. 15:21-28)

Please re-read my post #41 above carefully: favoring is not racist.
viewtopic.php?p=1097693#p1097693

[JehovahsWitness]

Seems God was racist favoring the white folk. (Acts 16:6-10) Thus Europe became Christian from pauper to king.

ACT 16: 6-10

Moreover, they traveled through Phrygi-a and the country of Ga-lati-a,+ because* they were forbidden by the holy spirit to speak the word in the province of Asia. 7 Further, when they came down to Mysi-a, they made efforts to go into Bi-thyni-a,+ but the spirit of Jesus did not permit them. 8 So they passed by Mysi-a and came down to Troas. 9 And during the night a vision appeared to Paula Mac-e-doni-an man was standing there urging him and saying: "Step over into Mac-e-doni-a and help us." 10 As soon as he had seen the vision, we tried to go into Macedonia, drawing the conclusion that God had summoned us to declare the good news to them.

You seem confused... do you think Chritianity arrived in Europe FIRST ? Was the Christian message preached exclusively to europeans? How is the fact that Christian missonaries were eventually directed to spread their gospel in Greece evidence of God being racist?

[POI]

That is not why, though, which I already explained.

So when God states "you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly", He is not placing favor upon an attribute which such humans cannot control? Are you sure?

[tam]

Peace to you all,

Okay, lets take this a step back (hopefully toward reality):

First, this is not about 'race' (and the idea of 'race' is being questioned). And the last poster (RIP) might want to keep in mind that Jews - and Israel in general - are of different 'races', including men and women who are black.


Second, this is about faith and inheritance (and also contracts/covenants... and also love). Your neighbor's children do not inherit your property. Your children inherit your property.

Abraham was chosen and blessed based upon his faith. Not based upon his "race or ethnicity" (which was not Jewish to begin with; Abraham was called out of the East, and brought into the Middle East. I don't know what 'race' that made him, nor does it matter, because it had to do with his FAITH - and EXERCISING that faith). God made a promise to Him (a covenant) based upon that (and because of it, God loved him, and if you love someone, you also care for those THEY love).

His son Isaac was then the heir of that promise/covenant as the first (legitimate) born son of Abraham - and keep in mind that Isaac also showed the same faith. Because a person can give up their inheritance or be disinherited. Yet Isaac also showed that same faith.

Then Isaac had two sons of his own: Jacob (Israel) and Esau. Esau was the first born; not Jacob. The inheritance should have gone to/through Esau (and it was his). But Esau GAVE that inheritance UP. Esau held that inheritance in such low regard that he sold his inheritance to Jacob for a bowl of stew.

So you can see here that an inheritance rightfully belongs to an heir, but it can be lost depending upon the actions of the HEIR.

Now the inheritance belongs to Jacob (renamed Israel, and from whom the nation of Israel comes).

Israel (the nation) consists of the twelve sons of Jacob.

God then makes a covenant (a contract) with the nation of Israel. God agrees to some things. Israel agrees to some things. No other nation made those agreements with God or chose Him AS their God. This is a contract between two parties who are agreeing to terms.

**Again, Israel is not one "race". Seriously. Israel (including the Jewish portion of Israel) comprises multiple 'races or ethnicity': Black, East Asian, etc. Ethiopian, Egyptian, Russian, Japanese, etc.


**

Then we come down to the new covenant.

The offer goes first to the Jews, then the Samaritans (also Israel)... but faith in God and in His Son is a requirement. When most of Israel rejects that Son, the offer opens up to all people (those who were not God's people in the past), and to ALL tribes, nations, languages, and people (Rev 7:9; Rev 5:9).

There are 144000 places reserved FOR Israel (an equal number from each of 12 tribes, with one tribe losing their place and another tribe getting a double portion), because of promises made to Abraham and the love of God for him. But anyone - from any tribe, nation, people or tongue - is invited; anyone may come.



There is nothing 'racist' or 'nefarious' involved here. Faith is involved, a contract (covenant) between two parties is involved, and inheritance is involved. Love is also involved.


1 - Covenants can be broken if the conditions are not met (though the promise to Abraham stands because Abraham remained faithful) <- indeed a covenant/contract can have it written in that if conditions are not met, they void the contract. Does the OP (or anyone else) think that honoring covenants and promises is racist?

If so, then those ones might want to consider First Nations. First Nations have - as part of their rights under treaties made for them AND their children - access to free education (many hoops to jump through, red tape, conditions... not all First Nations who want to have that free education will be able to get it). Is that racist? Unfair? Or is it simply honoring an agreement, a contract, a treaty?


2 - Inheritance goes to one's children - though a child can give up their inheritance or BE disinherited (perhaps due to their actions). Does anyone think inheritance rights are racist? Unfair?


3 - Then of course there is the condition attached: faith. Since faith can be held by anyone - from any tribe, nation, people or tongue - how can that then be racist? Since anyone can be part of the new covenant - all tribes, nations, people and tongues - how can that then be racist? Unfair?




Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[POI]

I think you should read the Bible.

I have. Have you? God favors one ethnic group. If this were not the case, God would have spread His miracles around the globe. God would not have impregnated the same ethnic group female, for which He already favors. He would not have placed favor to Israelites, as the law pertains to slavery practices. Etc etc etc... He seems to have a hankering for "Jews". The reason I raise this point, is because I doubt an all powerful, all present, and all loving god would apply this type of behavior....

It's more likely this YHWH character is yet another human god invention, just like the countless other 'gods', who just so happen to also mimic their own traditions.

[AquinasForGod]

That is not why, though, which I already explained.

So when God states "you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly", He is not placing favor upon an attribute which such humans cannot control? Are you sure?

I am sure. God offers no one favor based on their accidental properties. The bible must be interpreted in light of reason. If the interpretation contradicts sound reason, then the interpretation is at fault.

[POI]

So, God created and chose the Jews to be the race of people

Are you sure it isn't the opposite? It's more likely the Jews 'created' their god. Just like the many other groups, who create god(s)...

[POI]

That is not why, though, which I already explained.

So when God states "you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly", He is not placing favor upon an attribute which such humans cannot control? Are you sure?

I am sure. God offers no one favor based on their accidental properties. The bible must be interpreted in light of reason. If the interpretation contradicts sound reason, then the interpretation is at fault.

LOL! So you cannot give me a 'reason', but there must be Got it