A Question Unanswered, When in Church...

[POI]

During the last year or so of attending church, I was still reluctant to ask probing questions for fear of 'rocking the boat'. In the back of each chair were suggestion/question cards, which anyone could fill out and turn in... I asked the same question, about a dozen times, and never received any type of response.

For debate:

Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

[JehovahsWitness]

... it is/was always God's intention that all families of the earth be blessed. (Gen. 12:1-3) But it would be done through the lineage, the race chosen by Him.

If you mean that universal blesssing would be due to being born a physical descendent of Abraham, that is incorrect. Those descendants would need to prove faithful (which for the most paart they failed to do), thus the Abramic promise was opened up to black people, brown people, people of all skin colours, hair textures and physical characteristics.

Faith was and always will be the key to divine blessing , not skin colour.

(Gen. 9:24-27) is not describing our position in the church. It is describing how God views all mankind in their divisions.

No, Genesis 9 simply describes the geneological divisions as they descended from Noah. With the exception of the Canaanites, there are no clues as to how God would come to view these groups, but from Abraham we learn His regard for people of faith.


Paul discusses this point in the bible book of Romans.

[JehovahsWitness]

Just because the Church consists of all peoples and nations, doesn't change the condition of all peoples in the world under (Gen. 9:24-27).

If by "condition of all people" you mean that black people were cursed and light skinned people blessed because of their pigmentation, you have already been corrected on your fauthy understanding of Genesis 9. Ham was not cursed , Canaan was cursed and the descendents of CANAAN were not dark skinned.


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PREJUDICE , HATE and ...RACISM

[JehovahsWitness]

Paul certainly played it out when the Holy Spirit forbade him twice to go to certain places and sent him to Europe. (Acts 16:6-10)

Paul was sent to Europe because it was God's time for them to hear rhe good news; that same good news that had already been no doubt been taken to Africa, been preached throughout palestine, Asia and the middle east. To suggest God has disregard for people of colour because he effectively directed missionaries to Europe last, is not just blasphemous, it is irrational.

Jesus came to procure blessing to all mankind regardless of their skin pigmentation. And while he (Jesus) was charged to minister only to the decendents of Abraham, he commissioned his followers to open that message to people of all skin pigmentations. had no doubt been taken to Africa they accepted or not would come down to exposure to that message and heart condition rather than the shade of their skin.

Yes, it is/was always God's intention that all families of the earth be blessed. (Gen. 12:1-3)

That is correct; thus we can put accusations of a "racist God" to rest.




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Intermarriage between other people's had everything to do with race.

Interacial marriage was prohibited, not because of hair texture , skin pigmentation or any other physical characteristic, it was because the other nations worshipped pagan gods and Jehovah (YHWH) wanted to protect his people from being influenced by them.

EXODUS 34: 14-16

Be careful not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, because when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone will invite you and you will eat from his sacrifice. Then you will surely take some of their daughters for your sons,+ and their daughters will prostitute themselves to their gods and cause your sons to prostitute themselves to their gods.

People do not worship false gods because they have fuller lips, curly hair or dark skin, they worship false gods because that is part of their culture. The time would come ( thanks to Jesus), when Christian missionaries like Paul would shine a light on such ignorance and lovers of truth would be given the opportunity turn to worshipping the true and living God Jehovah.

Indeed, some of these black skinned, thick lipped curly, haired people would even become spiritual Israelites, and as such true children of Abraham!

[JehovahsWitness]

Again, the point I made in the book of Philemon was that the slavery status of Onesimus in the world did not change just because he became Christian.

There is no reason to assume Onesimus* was black. His slave status had nothing to do with the curse at Genesis 9.


* He had ran away from Colossae in Asia Minor

[1213]

You are cherry picking, quote miming, and/or taking statements out of context. Thus, I placed it all in bold. So you better understand, I have also added a sentence in red below. To make it easy for you, here is the beef of my last response:

God favors one ethnic group. If this were not the case, God would have spread His miracles around the globe. (Meaning, this god would not have demonstrated his miracles to one region and focused on one ethnicity group in the Bible). God would not have impregnated the same ethnic group female, for which He already favors. He would not have placed favor to Israelites, as the law pertains to slavery practices. Etc etc etc... He seems to have a hankering for "Jews". The reason I raise this point, is because I doubt an all powerful, all present, and all loving god would apply this type of behavior....

It's more likely this YHWH character is yet another human god invention, just like the countless other 'gods', who just so happen to also mimic their own traditions.

I agree that God favors certain people, those who are righteous and not evil. I don't think there is any good reason to think it is because of ethnicity.

[POI]

You are cherry picking, quote miming, and/or taking statements out of context. Thus, I placed it all in bold. So you better understand, I have also added a sentence in red below. To make it easy for you, here is the beef of my last response:

God favors one ethnic group. If this were not the case, God would have spread His miracles around the globe. (Meaning, this god would not have demonstrated his miracles to one region and focused on one ethnicity group in the Bible). God would not have impregnated the same ethnic group female, for which He already favors. He would not have placed favor to Israelites, as the law pertains to slavery practices. Etc etc etc... He seems to have a hankering for "Jews". The reason I raise this point, is because I doubt an all powerful, all present, and all loving god would apply this type of behavior....

It's more likely this YHWH character is yet another human god invention, just like the countless other 'gods', who just so happen to also mimic their own traditions.

I agree that God favors certain people, those who are righteous and not evil. I don't think there is any good reason to think it is because of ethnicity.

Then why place favor to the Israelites entirely, in regards to the rules of 'slavery'? The only distinction, or distinguishing factor, is that they are Israelites.

[AquinasForGod]

I am not sure how much more clear I can make my position. Accidental properties are things like our hair color, race, ethnicity, etc. God did NOT choose Abraham or Israel based on accidental properties. For some reason, you keep claiming I think he does.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. Why do you keep hyper-focusing on Abraham? I'm speaking about more than just one dude. For example, as I stated prior, why does God say this?

"but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.". Isn't this command alone, applying favor for properties humans cannot control? The answer is YES.

I addressed this. The answer is no. God did not command to not treat Israelites ruthlessly because of accidental properties, such as being Israelites or being middle eastern. It sure doesn't say do not be ruthless to them on account of them being Israelites.

It is for the same reason God chooses or commands anything. Because God knows us in all of time.

[POI]

God did not command to not treat Israelites ruthlessly because of accidental properties, such as being Israelites or being middle eastern. It sure doesn't say do not be ruthless to them on account of them being Israelites.

Then maybe you need to read Leviticus 25 again

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #99]

As Aquinas said, we read the bible in light of reason not the other way around. So we read the bible with this truth in mind. God chooses based on knowing all our actions and not based on accidental properties, so if one's interpretation of the bible leads them to think God works based on accidental properties, then the interpretation is wrong.