Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

[EarthScienceguy]

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

[Miles]

Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

Absolutely.

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Hmmm. How about the doubting atheist, or the questioning atheist, or the cynical atheist, or the incredulous atheist? What are they like?

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Actually, no atheist has to answer anything. Why can't they simply hold that no god exists without explaining a thing? I know there are plenty of theists, almost all of them Christians, who would be hard pressed to answer the question of "what was there before this universe came into existence?" without falling back on faith. Can you? Can you tell us with firm conviction "what was there before this universe came into existence?"

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

Yes there is. I've run across far too many. Just as there are far too many dogmatic theists---Christians.

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[TRANSPONDER]

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

I only encountered one on the previous board (1) one who appeared to declare that he knew there was no God. Just one post was enough to show that he could not be 100% sure about that and he took the point on board. In fact, Dogmatism is the sworn enemy of rationalism, of which atheism is a subset, specifically addressing the god -claim. Atheists in fact are happy to be corrected or get better information as that just makes our case stronger.

I think that Dogmatists, however get pushed further and further into denial until they either bend or break.

(1) incidentally, Folks, I notice a difference in browsers. Now I find double figures when I log on. When I first came here, it just just me and two Bots.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

Actually, no atheist has to answer anything. Why can't they simply hold that no god exists without explaining a thing?

Because to say there is no god means you are proclaiming that you know what there was before this universe began.

1. aliens
2. Black hole
3. Boltzmann brain
4. Multiverse

So what are you saying is eternal?

[Difflugia]

Because to say there is no god means you are proclaiming that you know what there was before this universe began.

Only if one thinks the god of the gaps is a valid argument. I don't, but I'm sure enough that there are no gods that I suspect I fit your definition of a "dogmatic atheist."

Other than a cursory knowledge of cosmology, I've no idea "what there was before this universe began." Gods share the same statistical space as the rest of the made-up explanations, of which there are infintely many. Even if one were to disprove each of the finite number of cosmological hypotheses for which there is some supporting data, that doesn't appreciably improve the chances of any individual hypothesis for which there isn't.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #5]

Only if one thinks the god of the gaps is a valid argument. I don't, but I'm sure enough that there are no gods that I suspect I fit your definition of a "dogmatic atheist."

Other than a cursory knowledge of cosmology, I've no idea "what there was before this universe began." Gods share the same statistical space as the rest of the made-up explanations, of which there are infintely many. Even if one were to disprove each of the finite number of cosmological hypotheses for which there is some supporting data, that doesn't appreciably improve the chances of any individual hypothesis for which there isn't.

A dogmatic atheist would say there was no god before their universe began. They would not say, "I have no idea what there was before the universe began". You are simply saying that you do not have enough information to know. Your desire is that there is no god but you cannot say with certainty that there is no god.

[Difflugia]

A dogmatic atheist would say there was no god before their universe began. They would not say, "I have no idea what there was before the universe began".

Then I misunderstood your definition:

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.

I deny that there are gods. I say that with the same confidence that I deny that there are leprechauns in my pocket or that the Taj Mahal is in my bedroom.

Would you clarify your definition? Is this perhaps the beginning of yet another apologetic argument that equivocates on what "possible" means?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #3]

In fact, Dogmatism is the sworn enemy of rationalism, of which atheism is a subset, specifically addressing the god -claim.

This is not a true statement. Atheism by definition is very dogmatic. Atheism is defined in the following way. "a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods"

Rationalism would also have to rule out all of the current theories in cosmology because they are contrary to our perception of reality.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

Actually, no atheist has to answer anything. Why can't they simply hold that no god exists without explaining a thing?

Because to say there is no god means you are proclaiming that you know what there was before this universe began.

So your contention is that if someone doesn't know what there was before this universe began, god is the answer? Really??

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[Tcg]

Atheism is defined in the following way. "a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods"

Nope. It is neither a philosophy nor a religion so it can't "a philosophical or religious position." It is also not disbelief; it is lack of belief. Those who have never heard of the concept of god/gods don't disbelieve in them, they lack belief in god/gods.

It's astonishingly straightforward. There is no need to confuse it at least not if one is seeking the truth and clarity.


Tcg