Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #53]
Religion is a relationship experience between a person and a deity.

Religion is the practice of carrying on about a magical entity that can't be shown to exist.

Show me evidence when a person says I love my spouse or better yet my spouse loves me.

I've made no claims about this, so have no burden for the evidence showing.

You can't, you can't use the fact that you're married, you can't use the fact they wear a wedding ring because none of that actually proves what the person is feeling on the inside.

The only rational, logical conclusion the pretty thing loves me is she fixes the groceries, does all the house work, and lets me see her nekkid if I ain't got in trouble.

And that is exactly what religion is. Unless I'm trying to convert you I don't have to prove anything.

I realize some to many theists don't feel the need to show they speak truth. It sure does make things easy when ya can't.

And if the only way for you to debate religion is for us to show proof then you need to just not debate religion cuz you know for a fact it's never going to happen.

Site rules indicate a claimant is expected to support their claims.

Did you lie when you agreed to abide by site rules? Or do you think being a theist affords you immunity from em?

It's an experience based belief system.

Mine is too.

In my experience theists can't show they speak truth regarding so many of their claims.

What is sad is that you can't even discuss religion or theism using the principles that already exist in those systems.

I debate, best I can, in accordance with the rules of this site and will most certainly not be bound to 'debate' in a manner that affords you comfort at the expense of truth.

You demand proof because you know you no longer have to engage in the discussion.

Only in religion does a request for proof become a demand - and don't it beat all in a debate.

So don't pretend you're here for anything other than to witness your atheism to others.

I reject your accusation that I'm "pretending" anything here.

If you wanna debate by insult, then your mother looks like an anencephalic frog. How 'bout that, huh? Does that get us any further along the religion discussion?

I "witness" so many theists coming into these debates and rejecting any attempt of others to find out if the theist's claims approach within a country mile of the Truth(tm).

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to brunumb in post #57]

You have no idea if that does or does not exist that's a guess on your part. And there's no reason for me to not trust my own experiences. I understand that you've been raised to not trust your own thoughts and feelings I was not raised that way. And if there's nothing here that you're going to accept from a theist then you should not even be here to discuss and debate religion because all you're doing is witnessing your atheism and funny us theist aren't allowed to do that.

TD&D is yonder way.

[brunumb]

Religion is a relationship experience between a person and a deity. Show me evidence when a person says I love my spouse or better yet my spouse loves me.

The spouses can b demonstrably shown to exist, not so much any deity. Whether or not the love is real is another matter.

[brunumb]

[Replying to brunumb in post #57]

You have no idea if that does or does not exist that's a guess on your part. And there's no reason for me to not trust my own experiences. I understand that you've been raised to not trust your own thoughts and feelings I was not raised that way. And if there's nothing here that you're going to accept from a theist then you should not even be here to discuss and debate religion because all you're doing is witnessing your atheism and funny us theist aren't allowed to do that.

Again, nothing to show that that anything spiritual is real. You were raised to trust your feelings, but it also seems that you were inculcated with ideas of the spiritual realm spirits and how to relate any experiences to them.

If there's nothing her to accept from a theist it is because nothing is being presented. Claiming to have experiences that you attribute to spiritual causes means nothing if you cannot support them in any substantial way. People claim to have been abducted and probed by aliens, to have seen Bigfoot, to have levitated, and on it goes. Tabloids are full of such things. Just because yours have spiritual connotations doesn't give you some sort of free pass. Defend your claims. All you are doing is witnessing to your religious beliefs and I for one do not care. This is not the place for that.

[PolytheistWitch]

[Replying to brunumb in post #64]

Both my parents were atheist. Other than stating I've had spiritual experiences what religion have I pushed on you I'm interested to know?

[PolytheistWitch]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #62]

No idea what this means.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #61

Religion is the practice of carrying on about a magical entity that can't be shown to exist.

Can such an entity be shown not to exist?

As I've mentioned elsewhere, cosmic materialism isn't an adequate default position since material existence has no way of accounting for itself.

[brunumb]

[Replying to brunumb in post #64]

Both my parents were atheist. Other than stating I've had spiritual experiences what religion have I pushed on you I'm interested to know?

Belief in deities, the spiritual and spirits, although pushed is not the right term.

[brunumb]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #61

Religion is the practice of carrying on about a magical entity that can't be shown to exist.

Can such an entity be shown not to exist?

As I've mentioned elsewhere, cosmic materialism isn't an adequate default position since material existence has no way of accounting for itself.

Can anything which is non-existent be shown to not exist? Surely non-existence is the default position until there is some compelling reason to think otherwise.

Why does material existence need to account for itself in order for it to be the status quo?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #61

Religion is the practice of carrying on about a magical entity that can't be shown to exist.

Can such an entity be shown not to exist?

As I've mentioned elsewhere, cosmic materialism isn't an adequate default position since material existence has no way of accounting for itself.

Can anything which is non-existent be shown to not exist? Surely non-existence is the default position until there is some compelling reason to think otherwise.

Why does material existence need to account for itself in order for it to be the status quo?

If it doesn't account for itself, something else has to account for it.