The condemned?

[Bobcat]

Jesus says that those who hear His word and do not keep it are condemned.

John 12:47,48
“Anyone who hears my word and does not keep it I am not the one to condemn him for I did not come to condemn the world I came to save it. Anyone who rejects me and does not accept my word he already has his judge namely the words I’ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day.”

So keeping His word is accepting it.

Jesus said He kept God’s word. He also said He came to spread it. So by His standards keeping God’s word is spreading it.

Do you keep God’s word as Jesus did? Or are you condemned?

[Bobcat]

[Replying to Miles in post #14]

Correct, I asked the reader if he kept God’s word as Jesus kept God’s word. Then I pointed out what Jesus said He did with God’s word was keeping God’s word.

It’s obvious you don’t keep God’s word since you don’t understand how Jesus kept God’s word.

Matthew 6:33
“Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these other things will be given to you as well.”

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #14]

Correct, I asked the reader if he kept God’s word as Jesus kept God’s word. Then I pointed out what Jesus said He did with God’s word was keeping God’s word.

It’s obvious you don’t keep God’s word since you don’t understand how Jesus kept God’s word.

And as I pointed out in post 13, "And it doesn't matter one wit what else Jesus may have done, be it eating bread dipped in olive oil or spreading god's word." Keeping god's word entails doing what god said, and god said to put to death those men who have sexual relations with another man as with a woman.

So tell me, just how did Jesus keep gods word, one of which was:

Leviticus 20:13
“If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death."

Spreading god's word certainly does not qualify because that is not what is said here.

.



.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Yeshua said it was the "bread of God" (John 6:33), the scriptures, which gives life to the world.

Sorry, but no, that is not accurate. Christ did not say that the scriptures are the bread of God that give life to the world.

Christ said that HE is the bread of Life. That He is the TRUE manna from heaven, whom God gave, and who gives life to the world. He, Christ Jaheshua, Himself.

Not the scriptures.

From John 6 (32 and 33):

“Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Christ then goes on (in His very next words) to identify that bread of God:

“I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty."


He repeats this again in verse 48 (onward):

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And again, verse 53 onward:

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”



Christ is the bread of God, the TRUE manna that came down from heaven, from God, the bread of LIFE.



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2ndpillar2]

Peace to you,

Yeshua said it was the "bread of God" (John 6:33), the scriptures, which gives life to the world.

Sorry, but no, that is not accurate. Christ did not say that the scriptures are the bread of God that give life to the world.

Christ said that HE is the bread of Life. That He is the TRUE manna from heaven, whom God gave, and who gives life to the world. He, Christ Jaheshua, Himself.

Not the scriptures.

From John 6 (32 and 33):

“Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Christ then goes on (in His very next words) to identify that bread of God:

“I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty."


He repeats this again in verse 48 (onward):

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And again, verse 53 onward:

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”



Christ is the bread of God, the TRUE manna that came down from heaven, from God, the bread of LIFE.



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Sorry, but that would be the impression espoused by the "many" of Matthew 7:13, those who are headed down the path to "destruction" following the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), such as your leader/shepherd (Zechariah 11:7-10 & Ezekiel 34), Paul. The "bread of God", the Word of God, "every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:3) is what Yeshua ate for 40 days and nights. It is the "unleavened bread" of the last supper, which is what represents the Word of God, which includes the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:24-33 & Revelation 16:13), without the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (leaven), the "message of the devil", the tare seed (Matthew 13:38-39), along with the wine (representative of the Spirit of God), which comprised the last supper, on the "day of Preparation" (on the 14th of Nissan), which was in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. According to John, Yeshua was the "Word" made flesh (John 1:14). You nor Yeshua ate or eat the bodily flesh of Yeshua, despite what the Catholic church may teach. Yeshua's message was that you were to "heed" his message, or "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27). According to Yeshua, he came to fulfill the "Law and the prophets" (Matthew 5:17), the Word of God, and as the "day of the LORD" is in abeyance, and the Gentiles haven't been sold into slavery as yet by "Judah" (Joel 2:31 - 3:8), then the "son of man" remains "near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:33), and is waiting till "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29). Your term "Christ" is simply a substitution for the word anointed. The anointed/Messiah the Jews were waiting for was king David (Ezekiel 37:24 & Ezekiel 34:23). Yeshua is laid out in Matthew 1, as the seed of David, yet the Jews weren't looking to eat David, but to be ruled by David, which is what is the role of the son of man "immediately after the tribulation" (Zechariah 14:16). The children of God are all "anointed", and are fed directly by the Spirit of God, whereas Yeshua remains in heaven (1 John 2:27-29). Yeshua had to return to heaven in order to send the "Comfortor".
One is either born of God (1 John 2:29), and "practice righteousness" or are born of the devil, and are sinners (1 John 3:8). As most members of the Gentile church, the church of the false prophet Paul, proclaim themselves to be current sinners, such as "commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42) then things don't look up for them, unless they can convince themselves that Yeshua's message, based on the Law and the prophets, was nailed to a cross, or at least "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13).

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Yeshua said it was the "bread of God" (John 6:33), the scriptures, which gives life to the world.

Sorry, but no, that is not accurate. Christ did not say that the scriptures are the bread of God that give life to the world.

Christ said that HE is the bread of Life. That He is the TRUE manna from heaven, whom God gave, and who gives life to the world. He, Christ Jaheshua, Himself.

Not the scriptures.

From John 6 (32 and 33):

“Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Christ then goes on (in His very next words) to identify that bread of God:

“I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty."


He repeats this again in verse 48 (onward):

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And again, verse 53 onward:

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”



Christ is the bread of God, the TRUE manna that came down from heaven, from God, the bread of LIFE.



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Sorry, but that would be the impression espoused by the "many" of Matthew 7:13,

No, that would be the exact words of Christ in the exact same chapter from which you, yourself, quoted.

those who are headed down the path to "destruction" following the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:15),

Again, Christ is the One who said that He is the Bread of Life, the true bread or manna from heaven, from God.

such as your leader/shepherd (Zechariah 11:7-10 & Ezekiel 34), Paul.

My leader/shepherd is Christ. Christ is the One who said that HE is the Bread of God, the true bread/manna from heaven. The bread of Life. His words, copied in blue above, from the exact same chapter from which you quoted.

The "bread of God", the Word of God,

... is Christ.

"every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:3) is what Yeshua ate for 40 days and nights.

God speaks words of course; and there is the person who is the Word of God who is Christ, who is the Bread of Life (as He Himself said), and from whom we must eat (and drink) in order to have life in ourselves, in order to remain in Him and Him in us.

It is the "unleavened bread" of the last supper, which is what represents the Word of God, which includes the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:24-33 & Revelation 16:13), without the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (leaven), the "message of the devil", the tare seed (Matthew 13:38-39), along with the wine (representative of the Spirit of God), which comprised the last supper, on the "day of Preparation" (on the 14th of Nissan), which was in fulfillment of the law and the prophets.

Leaven does equal hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy in Christ, though, the true manna from heaven; the true bread of Life.

According to John, Yeshua was the "Word" made flesh (John 1:14). You nor Yeshua ate or eat the bodily flesh of Yeshua, despite what the Catholic church may teach.

I did not claim anyone ate the physical flesh of Christ Jaheshua. I simply repeated His words that He is the true Manna from heaven, the Bread of Life, from God.

Your term "Christ" is simply a substitution for the word anointed.

The Anointed One. Or Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH).

The anointed/Messiah the Jews were waiting for was king David (Ezekiel 37:24 & Ezekiel 34:23). Yeshua is laid out in Matthew 1, as the seed of David, yet the Jews weren't looking to eat David, but to be ruled by David, which is what is the role of the son of man "immediately after the tribulation" (Zechariah 14:16).

Your argument is not with me. The words in blue above are the words of Christ. You recognize that because you quoted from that very same discourse. You might want to consider that there is something inaccurate in your theology if your theology is denying what Christ, Himself said.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Bobcat]

[Replying to Miles in post #22]

The scripture you quoted was not in effect in Jesus day. There was a new covenant which is still in effect today.

As it is written;

Isaiah 59:21

“And as for me, this is the covenant I have made with them, says the LORD, my spirit which is upon you and my words which I have put into your mouth shall never leave your mouth nor the mouths of your children nor the mouths of your children’s children from now on and forever.”

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #22]

The scripture you quoted was not in effect in Jesus day.

Then why did Jesus keep god's word? You yourself said "Jesus said He kept God’s word," and without qualification no less, with almost all of god's words popping up in the Old testament.

There was a new covenant which is still in effect today.

In spite of Jesus himself declaring:

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

And what do you do with

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

Just put it in a corner of the closet?

As it is written;

Isaiah 59:21

“And as for me, this is the covenant I have made with them, says the LORD, my spirit which is upon you and my words which I have put into your mouth shall never leave your mouth nor the mouths of your children nor the mouths of your children’s children from now on and forever.”

Sorry, but I fail to see the relevance.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

So tell me, just how did Jesus keep gods word, one of which was:

Leviticus 20:13
“If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death."

DID JESUS BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE HE DIDNT KILL ANY HOMOSEXUALS?

Jesus was not instructed to find and execute practising homosexuals, that responsibility was for Israel's appointed judges. It is a matter of historical fact that in Jesus day there were local and a High courts with powers to examine cases of wrongdoing and enforces penalties. The Hebrew bible records Moses appointing responsible men as judges for legal cases and scipture documents that this became the norm for judgements small and large up to the first century.

The verse cited says if a man has illegal sex he must be put to death. It did not say: "Everyone must kill a homosexual". Or ... "You must find men having illegal sex and put him to death". In living his life without killing a single homosexual Jesus was not breaking any law, as there was no law which obliged him (or any member of the public) to hunt down people having illegal sex and met out the prescribed punishment.

The responsibility of a private citizen was to report any crime they had personaly witnessed. The investigation was the responsibility of the judges (see Deut 19:18). There is no reason to believe Jesus opposed the Hebrew law or the Torah based legal system but neither is there any scriptural bases to imply Jesus was negligent of said law because there is no record of him killing any homosexuals.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HOMOSEXUALITY, HOMOPHOBIA and ...BIBLICAL PROHIBITIONS

[Yozavad]

So tell me, just how did Jesus keep gods word, one of which was:

Leviticus 20:13
“If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death."

DID JESUS BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE HE DIDNT KILL ANY HOMOSEXUALS?

Jesus was not instructed to find and execute practising homosexuals, that responsibility was for Israel's appointed judges. It is a matter of historical fact that in Jesus day there were local and a High courts with powers to examine cases of wrongdoing and enforces penalties. The Hebrew bible records Moses appointing responsible men as judges for legal cases and scipture documents that this became the norm for judgements small and large up to the first century.

The verse cited says if a man has illegal sex he must be put to death. It did not say: "Everyone must kill a homosexual". Or ... "You must find men having illegal sex and put him to death". In living his life without killing a single homosexual Jesus was not breaking any law, as there was no law which obliged him (or any member of the public) to hunt down people having illegal sex and met out the prescribed punishment.

The responsibility of a private citizen was to report any crime they had personaly witnessed. The investigation was the responsibility of the judges (see Deut 19:18). There is no reason to believe Jesus opposed the Hebrew law or the Torah based legal system but neither is there any scriptural bases to imply Jesus was negligent of said law because there is no record of him killing any homosexuals. This topic isn't of particular interest to me, but I feel somewhat compelled to sprinkle a smidgen of Judaic salt here. I was educated in Sephardi schools, and was raised in a fairly austere Haredi neighbourhood. I can assure you that nearly 120 Talmudic volumes (70 Babylonian and 53 Jerusalem) meticulously preserved and debated rabbinic thought, covering the 5th century b.c.e, to the 2nd century c.e. Rabbinic interpretation, as well as legal precedent by way of Sanhedrin, was the mode through which justice was meted out, not zealous vigilantes on a whim. Any penalty prescribed through Torah law was bound by precedent of aforementioned entities ( rabbinic, Sanhedric). Deuteronomy 17:8-13, gave them, and only them, the authority to enforce a penalty, as well as which type of penalty, ie., fines, capital punishment, excommunication etc. Every Jewish student is well acquainted with the pious, cunning fervor, by which rabbinic precedent annulled the death penalty by way of de facto (what actually happens), and simply pondered it by way of de jure (what should happen). Simply put: rabbinical precedent made it impossible to enforce the death penalty by making the preponderance of the evidence unattainable. Rabbinical precedent made the burden of proof multitudinous, e.g., what was the color of the bottom of his sandals, etc.

To criticize the Bible for having laws with penalties is one thing; and valid as far as intellectual honesty is concerned; but to criticize Judaica for actually applying those penalties is another thing altogether; and certainly not intellectual honesty.

(None of what I wrote was aimed at you, JehovahsWitness, I simply used your quote to chime in )

[Yozavad]

For clarity: for some reason it attached JehovahsWitness' words to the start of my own. As if I said them, Indeed I did not. My words started with the bit about, " this topic isn't of particular interest to me...". The bit about 'Jesus and homosexuals', are not my words, though it prefaced my words with them