Christianity's Problem

[POI]

God wants to communicate truth to his creation, right? Thus, if this is the case, then why communicate like he did? Many were/are illiterate, and/or are lazy. Meaning, many Christians have not made a true effort to read their Bible's, from cover to cover, and try to understand it completely. God would know all of this. But even if all read the Bible, and felt they understood every word, mass disagreement would soon develop anyways. As evidence by the endless denominations. Further, even the highly educated do not agree. Heck, we can even go as far as to establish that people who study hermeneutics do not agree. Even in the best case of scenarios, if everyone were to pick up a Bible, read it several times from cover to cover; mass disagreement, on many topics, would likely still persist.

For Debate:

Seems as though Jesus-God did a poor job in clearly conveying his message(s). Does Jesus-God REALLY wish to convey truth to his creation? Because if he does, why be satisfied with the published Bible?

[POI]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Not all who profess to be Christian are listening to Christ.

And yet, we have countless earnest Christians, who claim they not only listen, but understand. And yet, so many conflicting conclusions. Why would Jesus-God be pleased here?

Why are you assuming you know how Christ or God feels about this?

Are you suggesting Jesus-God may not be pleased with how the Bible was written? Either he was, or was not, pleased.

I thought we had moved past the bible being the means through which God chooses to communicate with man?

Why assume Jesus-God has moved passed the Bible, as being used as His chosen tool for proper communication?

I thought YOU and I had moved past the CLAIM that the bible is God's chosen means of communication with mankind. You did not offer any rebuttal. You simply said I had 'kicked the problem down the road'. What did you mean by that?


Peace again.

I have not moved passed it. I'm merely entertaining your apparent assumption. But even still, we have many people who claim to "listen, hear, and speak" to Jesus, and yet get conflicting answers --- (whether it be from reading the Bible or in prayer). Is Jesus' messages not very clear? Meaning, why is he pleased, with whatever mode of communication he provides, when countless earnest Christians receive differing messages?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Not all who profess to be Christian are listening to Christ.

And yet, we have countless earnest Christians, who claim they not only listen, but understand. And yet, so many conflicting conclusions. Why would Jesus-God be pleased here?

Why are you assuming you know how Christ or God feels about this?

Are you suggesting Jesus-God may not be pleased with how the Bible was written? Either he was, or was not, pleased.

I thought we had moved past the bible being the means through which God chooses to communicate with man?

Why assume Jesus-God has moved passed the Bible, as being used as His chosen tool for proper communication?

I thought YOU and I had moved past the CLAIM that the bible is God's chosen means of communication with mankind. You did not offer any rebuttal. You simply said I had 'kicked the problem down the road'. What did you mean by that?


Peace again.

I have not moved passed it. I'm merely entertaining your apparent assumption. But even still, we have many people who claim to "listen, hear, and speak" to Jesus,

Do we?

From post 94:

I don't think we have millions of people who claim that Christ or God speak to them. Some might go as far as saying that God or His Son speaks to them through the bible. Many might say that God answers their prayers. Many simply speak or write about their personal interpretation and understanding of the bible - or the interpretation from their religion, which they accept. The entire group of jws on this forum, in fact, state that God and Christ do NOT speak to men (despite what is written in the book they claim to follow).

**

and yet get conflicting answers --- (whether it be from reading the Bible or in prayer). Is Jesus' messages not very clear? Meaning, why is he pleased, with whatever mode of communication he provides, when countless earnest Christians receive a differing messages?

I don't think you can demonstrate that there are countless earnest Christians receiving different messages from Christ.


This still comes down to the simple fact that not everyone who professes to be Christian is listening to Christ.


Peace again.

[POI]

I don't think you can demonstrate that there are countless earnest Christians receiving different messages from Christ.

Do you listen/hear what Jesus says? Yes or no? If no, then all of your responses are worthless anyways, because you are then basing your conclusion on assumption alone. I encounter many, who claim to listen/hear Jesus; either when they read the Bible or pray to him. Are you one of them, or not? If so, then why is he giving you a conflicting message, verses when I speak to another, who also states Jesus speaks to them, either when they read the Bible or pray? You all give me differing answers to differing basic questions. How am I supposed to know which ones are getting genuine messages, and the others are counterfeit, or liars?

This still comes down to the simple fact that not everyone who professes to be Christian is listening to Christ.

Great. Are you one of them, or not?

[tam]

Peace to you,

I don't think you can demonstrate that there are countless earnest Christians receiving different messages from Christ.

Do you listen/hear what Jesus says? Yes or no?

I do listen to my Lord's voice (my Lord's name is Jaheshua). I have made no secret about that on this forum.

I encounter many, who claim to listen/hear Jesus; either when they read the Bible or pray to him. Are you one of them, or not? If so, then why is he giving you a conflicting message, verses when I speak to another, who also states Jesus speaks to them, either when they read the Bible or pray? You all give me differing answers to differing basic questions.

I repeat: not all who profess to be Christian are listening to Christ. Few even make the claim that Christ speaks or that they hear His voice.

How am I supposed to know which ones are getting genuine messages, and the others are counterfeit, or liars?

You would need to look to Christ for that. But then why would you not just listen to and follow Him instead of being concerned about what everyone else is doing?

This still comes down to the simple fact that not everyone who professes to be Christian is listening to Christ.

Great.

Then there you go.


Peace again.

[Diogenes]

Peace to you,

Not all who profess to be Christian are listening to Christ.

And yet, we have countless earnest Christians, who claim they not only listen, but understand. And yet, so many conflicting conclusions. Why would Jesus-God be pleased here?

Why are you assuming you know how Christ or God feels about this?

Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Telling us what Christ says? Everyone who interprets the Bible and tells others what it means is claiming to speak for God. Even stranger are the folks who tell us God speaks to them directly. Tens of thousands have claimed some god speaks to them. Funny god who speaks so differently to so many. You'd think God would want to unify, not divide.

OTOH, there's the example of The Tower of Babel where God (supposedly) changed everyone's language specifically to divide them. So maybe that's what God wants, division. There may be 34,000 different Christian denominations in the world.
https://thecompletepilgrim.com/many-chu ... ica-world/

That doesn't count the many divisions in Judaism who also base their beliefs on the 'Old Testament.'

[POI]

You would need to look to Christ for that.

Many, including you, claim to do that. And yet, the answers conflict. Many of you are earnest in your intent to listen/hear his answers. So why is Jesus-God content with having many get it wrong --- (either when reading the Bible, in prayer, or other)? The reason I can state some are getting it wrong, is that I get varying answers to the same questions being asked.

But then why would you not just listen to and follow Him instead of being concerned about what everyone else is doing?

He does not answer me. I tried for decades. Nada. I guess I'm not one of the lucky ones. Since you seem to think He communicates with you, (in some capacity), I'm asking you. So here it goes, again....

Why does Jesus-God appear to be content with conveying messages to many earnest folks, which come away with conflicting answers? Is He pleased with this conclusion, or not?

[kjw47]

Its a waste to show one with 0 faith truth.

When one has facts, faith is unnecessary. Meanwhile, the big problem with faith is that it allows one to believe in something that is false just as easily as something that is true. Check out the faith used to prop up all the other religions that you don't believe are true.

Even many scientists once realizing the precision it takes for the universe to work, concluded--intelligent design is the only way possible.

So what? Many scientists believe otherwise. Your argument just depends on which cherries you want to pick.

Eternal life in Gods kingdom is on the line for all. That is what you must consider and see if God is asking to much from you.

[kjw47]

For one who cannot even create a single blade of grass, thinks he knows better than God. God will show you the evidence when its to late for you. He has already shown you his great creation. How do you think it will feel to know you were mislead by satan and will lose out on eternal life in Gods kingdom?

Fear mongering is a very outdated mode of religious conversion. I know better than a god that doesn't exist and therefore knows nothing. If God will show the evidence when it is too late for me, that demonstrates that he doesn't really give a toss about me. I wonder how you can be so certain that Satan has not misled you as there are hundreds of Christian sects that would say that you have got things wrong yourself.

The teachings of Jesus and true God worship history back my religion 100%.

[tam]

Peace to you,

You would need to look to Christ for that.

Many, including you, claim to do that. And yet, the answers conflict. Many of you are earnest in your intent to listen/hear his answers. So why is Jesus-God content with having many get it wrong --- (either when reading the Bible, in prayer, or other)? The reason I can state some are getting it wrong, is that I get varying answers to the same questions being asked.

Indeed, but as stated, not all who profess to be Christian are listening to Christ.

You keep assuming how God and His Son feel. Do you think God and Christ like everything that happens in this world? Of course not.

But Christ said His sheep would listen to His voice. He did not say everyone would listen to His voice. He even said that many would call Him "Lord", but that He never knew them.

But then why would you not just listen to and follow Him instead of being concerned about what everyone else is doing?

He does not answer me. I tried for decades. Nada. I guess I'm not one of the lucky ones. Since you seem to think He communicates with you, (in some capacity), I'm asking you. So here it goes, again....

You seem to be taking this out of context. You asked:

How am I supposed to know which ones are getting genuine messages, and the others are counterfeit, or liars?

My response:

You would need to look to Christ for that. But then why would you not just listen to and follow Him instead of being concerned about what everyone else is doing?

Peace again.

[kjw47]

Then show us your claims are.

Its a waste to show one with 0 faith truth.

Bless your theist heart, you think making a claim is all it takes to get folks to bow down and worship right along with you.

This is a common tactic among the Christians who come here to 'debate'. When challenging their claims, they deny any responsibility for em, and kinda blame that on anyone who doesn't just drop a dollar in the collection plate. I realize the challenge here is kinda broad, or even unparticular, but the reponse, well how 'bout that.

Even many scientists once realizing the precision it takes for the universe to work, concluded--intelligent design is the only way possible.

This says nothing about the many scientists who consider god claims to be worthless.

So then you will believe those who will not enter Gods kingdom and lose out on gaining everlasting life. You should think about the value of everlasting life.