Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?

[oldbadger]

This my question:-

If a Christian infant dies, will it automatically gain entry to Heaven?

[boatsnguitars]

I cannot speak for every Christian alive ...

... you, in fact, don't speak for the majority of Christians, and therefore, the implication is that you aren't a true Christian.

Opinion duly noted.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people")is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good because the majority thinks so; it alleges if many believe it so, it is so.

Sure, but take it up with them. I can read the Bible too and come to my own conclusions and don't need to join your flock of sheep, right?

[oldbadger]

Oh dear,
5 pages in, with no clear answers about this question... 'Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?'

I gave you a clear answer...'Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?' No.


How much clearer do you need? (see post #4 )

[oldbadger]

I gave you a clear answer...'Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?' No.

That's better..... a clean NO.
Previously you told me something slightly different, JW........ but I'll help you, in that you wrote a 'biblical' No.
Now you have made it your No. I guess that's a Watchtower NO.

[oldbadger]

Oh dear,
5 pages in, with no clear answers about this question... 'Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?' and so far it looks as if infants and juniors from the many churches and congregations around the world are very likely to be excluded from the Christian Heaven if they should die so young.

In fact, I still have no clear idea about which Christian adults have any chance of the Christian Heaven, either.

Yet, Christians claim they have a Book that gives them clear direction, and in general, and claim they all agree on the important issues...

Apparently, whether babies go to Heaven or Hell isn't important to them.

I guess that it depends upon which Christians are asked. Some southern Christians in USA don't seem to want to pay for all child medicare, full education and subsistence ..... some that I have spoken with even get angry when they are presented with a basic list of safety/security provisions for their schools. Following on from this question I begin to wonder just how many mentally/neurologically disabled folks will get entry in to these Christian heavens?

[JehovahsWitness]

That's better..... a clean NO.
Previously you told me something slightly different, JW........

Previously you told me something slightly different, JW........

I see. I wrote ....

This my question:-

If a Christian infant dies, will it automatically gain entry to Heaven?

No, biblically: Babies do not go to heaven.

Heaven is reserved for baptised born again Christians and a baby lacks the intellectual capacity to be either (see John 3:3; Mat 28:19,20)

Previously I wrote "No" and the second time I wrote "No". Okay I see why you said I gave a slightly different answer because there is evidently a slight difference between "No" and "No" . It was not a clear (or what you call ... "CLEAN" (?)) enough for you.

Granted I did provide support for my answer because the OP did not ask for a one word response and I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum and that supporting information had its place in posts.


Thank you for your response,



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I guess that's a Watchtower NO.

I don't know what a "Watchtower NO" is so I cannot cannot respond.

• If you mean "is that No a direct quote from the Jehovah's Witnesses publication The Watchtower ? .... it is not. When I quote publications I use "<--- quotation marks ---> " and provide a source.

• If you mean do I represent the Watchtower society and are my posts representative of that legal corporation ...again no I do not represent wbts, and so ... no, my posts representative of that legal corporation.

• If you intended to ask, since you are one of Jehovahs Witnesses does your answer harmonise with the official teachings of that group, then I would say: All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses so yes, I hope so.

• If your "Watchtower No" quip was just a backhanded attempt to imply my opinions should be ignored as I am incapable of analysing biblical texts and commentaries and coming to a well founded logical conclusion which I can express and support in my own words, then: ad hominem duly noted.

Was there anything else ? It would be nice to return to the topic at hand , preferably without sarcasm.





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[Purple Knight]

Some Christian sects say they believe that babies go to Heaven, and I have a probably very nasty habit of making fun of them for it, and for not believing their own religion, since if they really did, they would sacrifice their own immortality and go out and kill as many babies as possible, ensuring the immortality of those babies.

Logical charity means that it's not only okay, but necessary to default to the version of a doctrine that makes sense, and that's the one that doesn't have this rather glaring loophole.

Sometimes the fringe sects have it together and the mainstream sects do not. That doesn't mean atheists are excused from arguing against the strongest form, rather than the weakest.

[oldbadger]

I don't know what a "Watchtower NO" is so I cannot cannot respond.

• If you mean "is that No a direct quote from the Jehovah's Witnesses publication The Watchtower ? .... it is not. When I quote publications I use "<--- quotation marks ---> " and provide a source.

• If you mean do I represent the Watchtower society and are my posts representative of that legal corporation ...again no I do not represent wbts, and so ... no, my posts representative of that legal corporation.

• If you intended to ask, since you are one of Jehovahs Witnesses does your answer harmonise with the official teachings of that group, then I would say: All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses so yes, I hope so.

• If your "Watchtower No" quip was just a backhanded attempt to imply my opinions should be ignored as I am incapable of analysing biblical texts and commentaries and coming to a well founded logical conclusion which I can express and support in my own words, then: ad hominem duly noted.

Was there anything else ? It would be nice to return to the topic at hand , preferably without sarcasm.

There are many hundreds of different churches, denominations, creeds and traditions within Christianity. You don't believe that infants will all get in to your Heaven....... I expect that some others do.

But 'Biblically' some Christians may disagree with you!

{18:2} And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, {18:3} And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. {18:4} Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. {18:5} And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name nreceiveth me. {18:6} But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

It certainly looks as if children are ahead of all in any queue to Heaven, and that includes Jewish children for sure, from reading the above. Of course Jesus does refer to 'the devil's children' as well........... all very strange to me. That's why I have asked the question.

[oldbadger]

Some Christian sects say they believe that babies go to Heaven, and I have a probably very nasty habit of making fun of them for it, and for not believing their own religion, since if they really did, they would sacrifice their own immortality and go out and kill as many babies as possible, ensuring the immortality of those babies.

Logical charity means that it's not only okay, but necessary to default to the version of a doctrine that makes sense, and that's the one that doesn't have this rather glaring loophole.

Sometimes the fringe sects have it together and the mainstream sects do not. That doesn't mean atheists are excused from arguing against the strongest form, rather than the weakest.

Amongst so many strange ideas within Christianity, this one shouts out loudly for answers.

Since Jesus often held up Jewish children and spoke of their protection then I expect that Jewish children will be there in his heaven, because he was himself a Jew and knew nothing of the names and titles that he would get saddled with after his time.

This idea that Christians have, that they will get to a blissful heaven whilst every other person will be in hard places or even writhing in eternal agony, it amazes me........

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS JESUS TEACHING BABIES* GO TO HEAVEN IN MATTTHEW CHAPTER 18?

No Jesus was using what can be refered to as an "object lesson" ; an object lesson is when you present concrete examples of metaphors or similes. Jesus was well known for pointing to the things (or people) around him to illustrate the ideas that he was trying to convey (Mat 13:34, 6:26). In the case of Matthew 18 Jesus was comparing his disciples to children*.

[ * ] It seems from the language chosen that he took a young child [Greek: paidion] [to illustrate his point rather than a nursing baby [Gk nepios ]

Notice verse 3 of that chapter " “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

So Jesus was using a child to help his disciples understand their need to be humble; he was not telling them they would need to grow younger or that children go to heaven. NOTE Jesus also compared his disciples to sheep (this does not mean farm animals go to heaven, it was a metaphor to highlight that they must follow him by being humble and obedient . He also compared his disciples to birds, seeds and told them to be like snakes.

CONCLUSION A careful reading of the account in Matthew 18 show Jesus was trying to teach a lesson in humilty to his (adult) disciples using similie he was not saying that young children or babies go to heaven

MATTHEW 18: 1-5

In that hour the disciples came near to Jesus and said: “Who really is greatest in the Kingdom of the heavens?”+ 2 So calling a young child to him, he stood him in their midst 3 and said: “Truly I say to you, unless you turn around and become as young children,+ you will by no means enter into the Kingdom of the heavens.+ 4 Therefore, whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one who is the greatest in the Kingdom of the heavens;+ 5 and whoever receives one such young child on the basis of my name receives me also.

JW


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