Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[onewithhim]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #505]

You are correct. JWs do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. Holy Spirit was poured out on the 120 disciples in the upper room on the day of Pentecost when they all started speaking in different languages. (Acts 2: 1-6; Acts 2:33; Acts 10:45) Now tell me----how can a person be poured out? And how could a person be a lot of tongues of fire and rest on each disciple? (Acts 2:3)

"Therefore because he [Jesus] was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which you see and hear." (Acts 2:33)

"And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed because the free gift of the Holy Spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations." (Acts 10:45)

I personally don't think a person can be poured out or split up into tongues of fire.

As I've stated. Each of the beings of the GODHEAD have specific qualities, and yet all three benefit from each other as ONE essence.

Well, you didn't say correctly.

And you didn't comment on the Holy Spirit being "poured out." A Person can't be poured out.

[JehovahsWitness]

And what about his submission while in heaven?

THEY were ONE and CHRIST returns to being GLORIFIED and GLORIFYING.

So you dont believe Jesus is subject to the Father after he returned to heaven ?

I fully believe that THEY...permissively subject to each other willingly for the same things, desires, & reasons.

Can you prove with scripture that the Father ever subjects Himself to the Son?

[LittleNipper]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #505]

You are correct. JWs do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. Holy Spirit was poured out on the 120 disciples in the upper room on the day of Pentecost when they all started speaking in different languages. (Acts 2: 1-6; Acts 2:33; Acts 10:45) Now tell me----how can a person be poured out? And how could a person be a lot of tongues of fire and rest on each disciple? (Acts 2:3)

"Therefore because he [Jesus] was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which you see and hear." (Acts 2:33)

"And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed because the free gift of the Holy Spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations." (Acts 10:45)

I personally don't think a person can be poured out or split up into tongues of fire.

As I've stated. Each of the beings of the GODHEAD have specific qualities, and yet all three benefit from each other as ONE essence.

Well, you didn't say correctly.

And you didn't comment on the Holy Spirit being "poured out." A Person can't be poured out.

A human being cannot create a Universe from nothing either... GOD wasn't a created being. GOD most certainly can empty HIMSELF and pour HIMESELF out if that is HIS desire... I'm only human and I don't claim to know everything of what GOD is (other than LOVE). However, I do suspect that GOD can do a whole lot more than HE has informed us...

[LittleNipper]

And what about his submission while in heaven?

THEY were ONE and CHRIST returns to being GLORIFIED and GLORIFYING.

So you dont believe Jesus is subject to the Father after he returned to heaven ?

I fully believe that THEY...permissively subject to each other willingly for the same things, desires, & reasons.

Can you prove with scripture that the Father ever subjects Himself to the Son?

Well, the Bible in the NEW TESTAMENT clearly says that CHRIST created everything that was created. That sounds like the FATHER took a sort of backseat to the creativity of the SON. But again, THEY are one. And so what ONE does THEY all do and accomplish. That is what GOD is all about.

[JehovahsWitness]

Can you prove with scripture that the Father ever subjects Himself to the Son?

Well, the Bible in the NEW TESTAMENT clearly says that CHRIST created everything that was created. That sounds like the FATHER took a sort of backseat to the creativity of the SON. But again, THEY are one. And so what ONE does THEY all do and accomplish. That is what GOD is all about.

That says nothing about subjection, ie putting oneself under the Authority of another. Do you have any scripture that explicitly states that the Father will subject himself to the Son. Scripture please.

[LittleNipper]

Can you prove with scripture that the Father ever subjects Himself to the Son?

Well, the Bible in the NEW TESTAMENT clearly says that CHRIST created everything that was created. That sounds like the FATHER took a sort of backseat to the creativity of the SON. But again, THEY are one. And so what ONE does THEY all do and accomplish. That is what GOD is all about.

That says nothing about subjection, ie putting oneself under the Authority of another. Do you have any scripture that explicitly states that the Father will subject himself to the Son. Scripture please.

1 Corinthians 15:28

When everything is subject to Christ, then the SON HIMSELF will also be subject to the ONE who subjected everything to HIM, so that God may be all in all.
This indicates that GOD the FATHER is subjected to CHRIST's being subjected so that the FATHER maybe totally magnified. They are mutually dependent! and inseparable.

[JehovahsWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:28

When everything is subject to Christ, then the SON HIMSELF will also be subject to the ONE who subjected everything to HIM, so that God may be all in all.

This indicates that GOD the FATHER is subjected to CHRIST....

Quite the contrary it indicates the exact opposite. Let is look at what it says ...

The verse does indeed speak of someone being subject, but it says the THE SON will be subject to someone identified as "The ONE ..." ...



WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?



JW

[LittleNipper]

1 Corinthians 15:28

When everything is subject to Christ, then the SON HIMSELF will also be subject to the ONE who subjected everything to HIM, so that God may be all in all.

This indicates that GOD the FATHER is subjected to CHRIST....

Quite the contrary it indicates the exact opposite. Let is look at what it says ...

The verse does indeed speak of someone being subject, but it says the THE SON will be subject to someone identified as "The ONE ..." ...



WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?



JW

But it also says the ONE, subjected EVERYTHING to the SON, so that GOD may be complete.

[JehovahsWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:28

When everything is subject to Christ, then the SON HIMSELF will also be subject to the ONE who subjected everything to HIM, so that God may be all in all.

This indicates that GOD the FATHER is subjected to CHRIST....

Quite the contrary it indicates the exact opposite. Let is look at what it says ...

The verse does indeed speak of someone being subject, but it says the THE SON will be subject to someone identified as "The ONE ..." ...



WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?



JW

But it also says {snip: did not ask what it also said} .

You have not answered the question. (Well move on to what it also says later, but first let's take the clause (part of the sentence) that uses the verb we are most interested in ---> "to subject")

So... Let me ask again my question for you is: WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #505]

You are correct. JWs do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. Holy Spirit was poured out on the 120 disciples in the upper room on the day of Pentecost when they all started speaking in different languages. (Acts 2: 1-6; Acts 2:33; Acts 10:45) Now tell me----how can a person be poured out? And how could a person be a lot of tongues of fire and rest on each disciple? (Acts 2:3)

"Therefore because he [Jesus] was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which you see and hear." (Acts 2:33)

"And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed because the free gift of the Holy Spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations." (Acts 10:45)

I personally don't think a person can be poured out or split up into tongues of fire.

As I've stated. Each of the beings of the GODHEAD have specific qualities, and yet all three benefit from each other as ONE essence.

Well, you didn't say correctly.

And you didn't comment on the Holy Spirit being "poured out." A Person can't be poured out.

A human being cannot create a Universe from nothing either... GOD wasn't a created being. GOD most certainly can empty HIMSELF and pour HIMESELF out if that is HIS desire... I'm only human and I don't claim to know everything of what GOD is (other than LOVE). However, I do suspect that GOD can do a whole lot more than HE has informed us...

God was definitely not a created Being. His SON was. Jesus is not God. Jesus came here as a perfect man and never sinned, so he wasn't just an ordinary human. He was sent BY God. And there are things that God cannot do, like coming here to earth and living here. He can't "pour himself out," He is too magnificent for that. The Father, God, will show us more things that He CAN do in the near future, that's for sure. But He has already let us know what kind of Person He is and what He plans to do, so it is not a big mystery.