Jesus is God - Lord and Saviour

[Wootah]

Is Jesus your Lord and Saviour?

If so then guess what - Jesus is God.

The Lord of the Old Testament Is Designated Savior
Isa. 49:26 - “All flesh shall know that I the lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.”
Isa. 43:3 - “For I am the lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour.”
2 Sam. 22:3 - “The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.”
Isa. 43:11 - “I, even I, am the lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”
Isa. 45:21 - “There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.”
Isa. 45:15 - “Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.”
Hos. 13:4 - “Yet I am the lord thy God; . . . thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.”
Ps. 106:21 - “They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt.”

Jesus Christ Is Designated Savior
Luke 2:11 - “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
John 4:42 - “We have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
Acts 5:31 - Jesus “hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 13:23 - “Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.”
Phil. 3:20 - “From whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.”
2 Tim. 1:10 - “But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”
Titus 1:4 - “The Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.”
1 John 4:14 - “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”


Take note of Isa. 43:11 - “I, even I, am the lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”

According to the Bible there is no saviour other than God.

Is Jesus your saviour or not?

Anyone going to rebut this?

[JehovahsWitness]

WHO IS LORD?


While certain titles such as Almighty or the Creator are fittingly only applied to YHWH (Jehovah), the title LORD (like Master, Shepherd, Teacher, Instructor... etc) can legitmately be applied to either Jehovah, The Almighty, Jesus or both or neither (The title LORD is applied to both both humans and false gods throughout the bible ). It is the context, not the title itself, which indicates who is being referred to.


Hope that helps,

JW

PSALMS110:1
"Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."- New International Version

LORD

Word Study (greek)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 178#866178

Who does LORD apply to in the Christians Greek Scriptures?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 52#p864252

- examples
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 727#866727
- Watchtower references (Jam 5:8)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 339#866339

[JehovahsWitness]

WHO IS SAVIOUR?


While certain titles such as Almighty or the Creator are fittingly only applied to YHWH (Jehovah), the title SAVIOUR (like Lord, Master, Shepherd, Teacher, Instructor... etc) can legitmately be applied to either Jehovah, The Almighty, Jesus or both (indeed even humans are referred to as SAVIOURS in scripture).

It is the context, not the title itself, which indicates who is being referred to.




JW

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

THE DIVINE NAME , JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[JehovahsWitness]

ISAIAH 43:11

I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior

Jehovah (Yahweh/YHWH) is the ultimate source of salvation, his position as the supreme first cause of all true salvation. In that sense His position is incomparable to anyone else including that of his son .

In view of the above then, " besides [YHWH] there is no savior" does not mean that YHWH (Jehovah) nobody can legitimately be referred to by the same title because they are saviours in a lesser sense , are saving from some other danger or (like Jesus), they are used by The Father as instruments or agents to achieve HIS ends (see Hebrews 12:2).

CONCLUSION: Jehovah, The Father is the one True God and the ONLY individual that holds the position of supreme ruler of the universe (compare John 17:3). The expression "besides [YHWH] there is no savior" should be understood in its relative sense (ie no other saviour that compares to Him) rather than no other saviour that exist - compare 1 Cor 8:5

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

THE DIVINE NAME , JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[JehovahsWitness]

ISAIAH 44:6
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

ISAIAH 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God - ESV

ISAIAH 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me. KJV

HOSEA 13:4
Yet I am Yahweh your God from the land of Egypt; and you shall acknowledge no god but me, and besides me there is no savior - World English Bible

QUESTION: Since the bible both refers to pagan gods and says there is no God besides YHWH (Jehovah) is this a contradiction?

• No, "no other" (as found in Isaiah 43:10 and 45:5 and other scriptures) is highlighting that YHWH is "alone" in his position as the elohim deservjng of worship. The one personage that holds the position of supreme ruler of the universe (compare John 17:3). The expression "there is no other [God]" therefore should be understood in a relative sense not in the absolute (ie no other god that compares to YHWH/Jehovah) rather than no other existing gods (elohim) - compare 1 Cor 8:5; Rev 4:11

NO OTHER TO BE WORSHIPPED

The Israelites were commanded not to "know" (worship) or "acknowledge" (Hos 13:4) or any other God (elohim) but YHWH as being theirs (ie the one that saved them and the one to whom they must offer exclusive devotion). They were to recognize that the god (elohim) YHWH (Yahweh/Jehovah) was unique amongst all the other elohim, (ie that there was "none like him" (compare Isaiah 44:7a, 46:9b), none equal to him and none that is comparable to him in positon, might and dignity. The scriptures above then mean that no elohim, real or imaginary that should rightfully be recognized or acknowledged as the Creator and sovereign ruler of the universes. It is in this sense the bible uses the expression "only TRUE God", not that all other gods are false or not "real" but that no other gods (physical or divine) have the right to be identified as being in the the Supreme absolute position of power and excellence.

CONCLUSION: When the bible speaks about there being no other god but YHWH (or Him being the "only True God") it is not speaking in the absolute (that no other gods are real or exist) but in the relative sense, that relative to Him all other gods become insignificant.

JW






RELATE POSTS

How are we to understand EZEKIEL 28:1-19?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 840#907840

Why do some bibles vary between capital G- and a small g- for the word GOD?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 521#907521

Is the word G/god (elohim/theos) EXCLUSIVE to YHWH/Yahweh? (tigger2)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 565#907565
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[JehovahsWitness]

Duplicate

[JehovahsWitness]

Isa. 45:21 - “There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.”






QUESTION: Since the bible both refers to pagan gods and says there is no God besides YHWH (Jehovah) is this a contradiction?

No, "no other" is highlighting that Jehovah is "alone" in his position as the True God and the one personage that holds the position of supreme ruler of the universe (compare John 17:3). The expression "there is no other [God]" should be understood in its relative sense (ie no other god that compares to Him) rather than no other gods exist - compare 1 Cor 8:5

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

THE DIVINE NAME , JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[JehovahsWitness]

#QUESTION: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was a "Master Worker" working with Jehovah during the creation when Isaiah 44: 24 says God created BY himself ("alone") ?

World English Bible

Yahweh, your Redeemer, and he who formed you from the womb says: “I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself.- Isaiah 44:24[/color]

ISAIAH 44: 24
"Thus said Jehovah, thy redeemer, And thy framer from the womb: 'I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth -- who is with Me?" - Young's Literal Translation

Job 9:8
Who alone stretches out the heavens
And tramples down the waves of the sea. (NASB)

The bible never contradicts itself. Job 38: 4-7 indeed proves that God was not LITERALLY alone when he began creating the universe. Job reads [CAPs mine]

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
AND ALL THE ANGELS SHOUTED FOR JOY?

Thus, prior to the creation of the physical universe God therefore created his spiritual family, including his son Jesus. Since we know therefore God was not literally alone at the moment of creation, when He asks "who was with me?" at Isaiah 44 verse 24 God cannot be implying no one was present at creation but rather that no one was EQUAL to him as being the initiator of that those creative acts.

To illustrate: When someone says "no one was with me", it doesn't necessarily mean nobody was present but nobody joined them or suppoted them when they needed assistance. For example if a Union Leader suggests factory workers go on strike he might present his case and then ask "Who is WITH me?" He is not asking who is present but who is on my side ready to support this decision? Who will help me? Similarly, when someone says "I went through the whole thing alone/by myself" he is not necessarily saying there were no other humans present on earth or even aware of the situation but that he or she when through the experience in their own force, without drawing on or needing others for support.

JESUS' ROLE

While the angels WITNESSED creation and Jesus was used as a worker, the Almighty needed no one to ensure that his purpose be accomplished, he was "alone" in his position of initiator, designer and CREATOR of the universe. Jesus working for God does not mean God could not have achieved his aims without his son, since He (God) has unlimited power and resource, nor do we need to equate Jesus with God in a so called "trinity" to understand the verse in Genesis that states "Let us make man".

NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses never refer to Jesus as "The CREATOR" but believe Jesus worked under the guidance and direction of Jehovah in the creation of all things. For more on this please see my earlier post HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 001#864001







CONCLUSION: The context of Isaiah indicates the Almighty is emphasising, not his solitude, but his power, unequaled in the universe and certainly unequalled before puny humans (see Isaiah 44: 24-28 ) Isaiah is not saying God was literally "alone", it is saying he created alone, that he drew on or called on no one else to create and God ALONE can take credit for the existence of the universe and all that is in it (See Ps 83:18 ).

Further reading
http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.fr ... -said.html

Jesus, God's "Masterworker" in Creation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p864013

Does the fact that Jehovah worked WITH Jesus in Creation make Jesus The Creator?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p864015

[JehovahsWitness]

2 PETER 1:1 and ...TITUS 2:13

2 Peter 1:1 . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ ... Paul uses the same phrase in Titus 2:13

TRINITY 2023: viewtopic.php?p=1112469#p1112469

While some bible translations render the verses in a way that suggests they refer to one individual, the CATHOLIC bibles below clarify matters by rendering the verses as follows...

Code: Select all

NEW AMERICAN BIBLE REVISED 
..through knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. - 2 Peter 1: 1

DOUAY-RHEIMS 
Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ  -Titus 2 :13

The original Greek of 2 Peter 1:1


The passage literally reads ...

... of the GOD (of us) and of Saviour Jesus Christ

..leading some to conclude that the writer is designating Jesus as God but Moulton's Grammar of New Testament Greek explains that where there are several nouns connected by "kai" (and) "The art[icle] may be carried over from the first noun to the other(s)" - p. 181, Vol. 3, 1963. Indeed this is the case in many similar constructions. We do a similar thing in English when we refer to "King and country"; it is understood, even without saying King and the country that the country is not the king.

CONCLUSION It is grammatically dubious to say the least to insist that Peter and Paul (the writer of Titus) were suggesting Jesus was God in the above passages. Two indi visuals are spoken of only one of which is being revered to as God.

TITUS 1:4 - NWT

May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior

Further Reading
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... -rule.html

Sharps Rule
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... ts-on.html
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... -rule.html
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... -some.html

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

THE DIVINE NAME , JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[JehovahsWitness]

INDEX: TRINITY DEBUNKED - LORD, GOD & SAVIOUR

Isa. 49:26 - - see post # 2 - “All flesh shall know that I the lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.”
Isa. 43:3 - see post # 2 - “For I am the lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour.”
2 Sam. 22:3 - see post # 2 - “The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.”
Isa. 43:11 see post #4 - “I, even I, am the lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”
Isaiah 44:24 - see post #8 "who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself.- "
Isa. 45:21 - see post # 7 “There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.”
Isa. 45:15 - see post # 2 “Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.”
Hos. 13:4 - see post #5 “Yet I am the lord thy God; . . . thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.” (also see Isaiah 44:6, 9 ; 45:5 )
Ps. 106:21 - see post #2 “They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt.”

TRINITY 2023: viewtopic.php?p=1112469#p1112469

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

LORD & SAVIOUR , JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED