Equality between the Father and Son

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #68]

Heb. 1:8 in the KJV reads 'thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’


Literally the NT Greek text reads for Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

Then all the above must be wiser than the 60 brilliant, and proven scholars, professors of the three greatest Universities in all of Europe who translated the King James Bible?

Yes, and as we have discerned from what Christ said, the majority isn't always right. (See Matthew 7:13,14.)

[Revelations won]

Dear Capbook,

I think this clarified when we understand that the Fathers “throne” is
forever.

Yes Christ was to inherit all that the Father had and would sit in the Fathers throne.

But you should also remember that Christ also had glory with the Father before he condescended to come to this earth to gain a body like the rest of us.

We should also remember that he came into morality committed to do the will of the Father and by so doing he suffered the will of the Father and though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered was made perfect and became the author of salvation for us.

You do not need to take my word for it, as Christ himself so very powerfully testified “I of my self can do nothing”, “for I only do the things that I have seen my Father do”.

Have you forgotten that as Christ testified that he not only had glory with the Father before he came to earth, but also that by doing the will of the Father in mortality in his earthy mission he would also by so doing would also bring “greater glory” to the Father?

Thus it is obvious that by his works he would earn the right to be exalted to sit in his Fathers throne.

Thus we should remember that in this process of eternal progression that the Father was also to receive greater glory and exaltation to a greater throne.

Perhaps this is better understood when we cast off the tunnel vision concept that we are the only earthy creation of God wherein the spirit children of God the Father has placed his spirit offspring are sent to experience the tests and trials of mortality to prove ourselves worthy of his greatest blessings.

Hope this gives you an introduction which you should carefully ponder on.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #68]

Heb. 1:8 in the KJV reads 'thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’


Literally the NT Greek text reads for Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

Then all the above must be wiser than the 60 brilliant, and proven scholars, professors of the three greatest Universities in all of Europe who translated the King James Bible?

Yes, and as we have discerned from what Christ said, the majority isn't always right. (See Matthew 7:13,14.)

I believe you need o do a little more research, if not, good luck with your agenda.

[onewithhim]

Dear Capbook,

I think this clarified when we understand that the Fathers “throne” is
forever.

Yes Christ was to inherit all that the Father had and would sit in the Fathers throne.

But you should also remember that Christ also had glory with the Father before he condescended to come to this earth to gain a body like the rest of us.

We should also remember that he came into morality committed to do the will of the Father and by so doing he suffered the will of the Father and though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered was made perfect and became the author of salvation for us.

You do not need to take my word for it, as Christ himself so very powerfully testified “I of my self can do nothing”, “for I only do the things that I have seen my Father do”.

Have you forgotten that as Christ testified that he not only had glory with the Father before he came to earth, but also that by doing the will of the Father in mortality in his earthy mission he would also by so doing would also bring “greater glory” to the Father?

Thus it is obvious that by his works he would earn the right to be exalted to sit in his Fathers throne.

Thus we should remember that in this process of eternal progression that the Father was also to receive greater glory and exaltation to a greater throne.

Perhaps this is better understood when we cast off the tunnel vision concept that we are the only earthy creation of God wherein the spirit children of God the Father has placed his spirit offspring are sent to experience the tests and trials of mortality to prove ourselves worthy of his greatest blessings.

Hope this gives you an introduction which you should carefully ponder on.

What is your point? What are we supposed to get out of your post so that we can ponder on it?

[FruitoftheSpirit]

Dear Capbook,

I think this clarified when we understand that the Fathers “throne” is
forever.

Yes Christ was to inherit all that the Father had and would sit in the Fathers throne.

But you should also remember that Christ also had glory with the Father before he condescended to come to this earth to gain a body like the rest of us.

We should also remember that he came into morality committed to do the will of the Father and by so doing he suffered the will of the Father and though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered was made perfect and became the author of salvation for us.

You do not need to take my word for it, as Christ himself so very powerfully testified “I of my self can do nothing”, “for I only do the things that I have seen my Father do”.

Have you forgotten that as Christ testified that he not only had glory with the Father before he came to earth, but also that by doing the will of the Father in mortality in his earthy mission he would also by so doing would also bring “greater glory” to the Father?

Thus it is obvious that by his works he would earn the right to be exalted to sit in his Fathers throne.

Thus we should remember that in this process of eternal progression that the Father was also to receive greater glory and exaltation to a greater throne.

Perhaps this is better understood when we cast off the tunnel vision concept that we are the only earthy creation of God wherein the spirit children of God the Father has placed his spirit offspring are sent to experience the tests and trials of mortality to prove ourselves worthy of his greatest blessings.

Hope this gives you an introduction which you should carefully ponder on.

You've said some things I do not believe are scripturally accurate which is the result of you misinterpreting scripture by not applying a clear given truth.

The truth that I speak of is the fact that YHVH our Heavenly Father had declared the End from the beginning, even before the world was, where He would call a man to fulfill all of His will bringing forth salvation and righteousness (Isaiah 46). This calling we are given in Isaiah 42 and it's the calling of a man to righteousness, a man elected from out of the people where through YHVH's Spirit dwelling in him he is anointed to fulfill YHVH's covenant. This covenant serves the purpose to why YHVH created all things in the first place and in it is held the promise of eternal life, which also was promised before the world began.

YHVH elected a man from among the people even before the creation of the world, such was held in His WORD and in that WORD was glory for THIS MAN. Jesus before his death asked for this glory.

Proverbs 12:28: In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth.

You and others make Jesus into a completely false image. Jesus is a man to whom YHVH was mindful of and visited, giving him His Spirit, making the son of David into His own Son just as He had promised (1 Chronicles 17). That Spirit dwelling in him was a calling to righteousness to which brought forth his eternal life. Jesus being raised from the dead is God's WORD spoken before the world began fulfilled, where he is promised to be a firstborn of many brethren, where we too are promised to be made as he is, where we too are promised the Spirit to the cause of righteousness which brings forth our eternal life and entrance into God's Kingdom.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

1 John 3:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

Jesus was raised from the dead entering into his glory, he rose being able to no longer die, he was given the eternal life that God had promised unto mankind before the world began. Jesus is proof that God's Spirit dwelling in man causes righteousness and brings forth eternal life, this is how God has justified us through him, this is why through him mankind has reconciliation. It's all about the One Spirit that we were all made to drink of and Jesus is proof that the Spirit does cause obedience, it does cause a man to be able to walk in all of God's ways, it does cause righteousness.

Jesus speaks of his glory, it was in God's WORD from the beginning, even before the world was, and after Jesus was raised from the dead he spoke of OT scriptures concerning his glory. That glory doesn't contain anything about some spirit son leaving his glory behind to temporarily become a man to then go back to his glory. Even before he was crucified he spoke of his glory and it was glory that was promised for a Son of Man.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

JESUS WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD WITH FLESH AND BONES AND HE RECEIVED THE PROMISED SPIRIT AND WAS EXALTED TO YHVH'S RIGHT HAND AS A SON OF MAN.

This Son of Man is returning in the glory of his Father! What is that glory? The glory is spoken of in Isaiah 11, where through the Spirit that dwells in him he continues to complete YHVH's will destroying enemies, giving reward and setting up God's kingdom where he sits on his father David's throne.

The glory you say Jesus had before the world was is in your imagination, it's not in scripture. Jesus tells you directly of his glory and it is unto a Son of Man, it is glory Jesus shared after he rose from the dead that he said had been written by the prophets and YHVH our Heavenly Father tells you directly that his glory was in His WORD before the world began.